4Runner sub box design questions

[williemon]

Im a neewb to the board but have been into car audio since late 80s. My last design was about 8 years ago in my 94 Toyota 4x4 std cab truck. I had 2 10" drivers (MTX Blue Thunder) in a sealed enclosure that doubled as an amp rack. I was running 300 watts to the subs and 240 watts to my Morel up front components.

I have since sold that truck and have a 1990 Toyota 4Runner. My focus right now is to build a sealed sub box for it in the rear cargo area. I want to retain some useable space in this area though, but be able to run 4 10" subs wired for a 2 ohm load on a Precisian Power amp. This should get me around 600 watts total for the subs.

The subs are my trusty 10" MTX blue thunder pair, and a pair of JL Audio 10w1 subs. I want to run the JLs on one side of the cargo area, and the MTX on the other.

Im looking at an L shaped sealed enclosure. I believe that I need about 1.5 cubic feet per side for this to work. I have removed the trim panels from the cargo area and any storage pockets as well. The top vertical part of the L shaped box will be fairly normal. They will extend out some from the sides but will maintain 48.5" between the left and right enclosure so I could slide a 4x8 sheet of plywood into the cargo area if I need to. The drivers will fit along the sides.

The bottom part of the L shape will run along the floor of the cargo area. The reason for this shape is that there is not enough volume in just the box on the sides, so extending it along the floor of the cargo area is my only choice.

Questions I have :

1:

With an L shape box, if the top of the L were (internal measurments) 5" deep, 12" wide and 14"tall, but the bottom were say 17" wide, 24" long but only 2" deep, would it actually sound good or work like I expect it to with the tunnel like 2" deep portion? If the box needs to have more volume, the bottom of the L is the only thing I have to adjust, but it needs to be no more than 2" deep so I can maintain cargo space.

2:

What thickness of material, and what material should I use for the box? I will brace internally, but I want a dense, lightweight material. Cost is not really an issue. I really dont want to go fiberglass though.

3:

I like SQ more than I like SPL so I will be building to favor SQ, but I will take some tradeoff to meet my space requirements. I used to tune to a sub system Q of .7 a long time ago. I learned and read that .7 was not always the best in a car system. so what Q should I tune for to get the balanced mix of what I want? I like country, rock, some rap, some new age. I want my music to be fairly accurate, but I want to get it to punch up for just plain fun as well.

Thanks for any help you all can give me.

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[williemon]

Anybody have any answers?

 

[williemon]

Have I not followed proper protocol??

 

[Blazin_Jason 10+ year member]

Not to be an ***, but I think nobody is repsonding after reading your first post. When they read the fact that you want to run 2 different brand subs, they probably close the window. First thing to do is determine which subs you are going to use, then go from there. I don't think you will find many people on here who would recommend using both pairs. You will want to use 3/4" MDF since it's cheap will work fine. Birch is being used often as well if you want to pay the extra cost. You probably won't need to add any bracing if you plan on running them sealed. At most and what I would do, is to have seperate chambers for the subs.

 

[williemon]

So what we have here is a bunch of snob *** butt wipes that think they are better than me. What a waste this board is.

The issue is this: I have a pair of JL subs in an enclosure. It is an odd shape with a part of the volume that is wide but not deep at all. I just wanted to know if this shape of an enclosure would function as I think it would? I also happen to be making the same type of enclosure for a set of MTX subs.

The JLs would be in their own box and the MTX would be in their own box. I would not mix JL and MTX in the same volume only because the internal relationship of each subs parameters might, and that is might cause less than desired results.

You have to admit that this setup in a 4 runner while keeping over 95% of the useable cargo area is quite a challange. Not only that, but I do all my work myself. Its something that I enjoy doing when I have the time. Other things keep me from having the time or money to do this like a job, a wife and 2 kids on a single salary.

All I wanted was to have a little fun and do something that I had never done before. A system with 4 subs, 3 amps and 3 way kick panel front stage is an idea that I have always wanted to do, but I had other issues in life to tend to.

The equipment list is good. I have 2 Carver and one Precision Power for amps, 2 JL and 2 MTX subs, 2 Rockford Fosgate mid bass for the front, 2 Morel 6" for the front and 2 Morel Tweeters for the front. I run a Kenwood cassette headunit with 10 disk changer and have 2 audiocontrol EQX units if I decide to use them.

So what if I want to run 2 brands of subs in this system? Im running 2 brands of amps and yes, the 2 brands do sound different. I used to use a carver for the low end as well as the high end, but since the carver is better for the high end than the low end, I plan to run each carver bridged mono into an 8 ohm load for 240 watts for each kick panel. The Precision power will run the low end since it is better in the bass area.

Folks, I dont have much money for this, but I have the equipment from years back. It all still works because it is good equipment and I dont abuse it. I just wanted to enjoy this passion and love for this hobby once again. I was looking to you folks to help me understand more about the physics of the enclosure.

Sorry I bothered you folks. Yall just keep to yourselves and I will find a board that has friendly folks on it.

 

[PurposeSoap 10+ year member]

So what we have here is a bunch of snob *** butt wipes that think they are better than me. What a waste this board is.

I totaly want to help now, since I never read the post before the insults came

dont let the door hit ya on the way out

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

You will find the same answers no matter where you go. Don't mix two different type of subs.

Would you have one 6" morel on one side of your front stage and then one 6" dayton mid on the other side playing the same frequencies? I doubt you would do that. The same thing applies here with subs.

I was going to try to help you out until you called us all snobby *** wipes... go ahead and act like a child and I'll act like one too. Go to http://www.elitecaraudio.com and they will help you because I sure as hell won't.

 

[williemon]

Why not mix 2 brands of subs in the same car if they will be in different boxes? We are talking frequencies from 10hz to 60hz here. They move air. I probably wont know that their are 2 brands of subs back there anyway. So what will it hurt? Mids are different. Besides, 2 brands of subs were not the issue. 2 of the 3 responses were to tell me not to mix the subs. Forget about what I did not ask for and answer the question I had about box shape and areas of volume. If you do have an opinion of my mixing 2 brands of subs, then let me know why it is not a good idea.

I competed in IASCA and NACA back in the mid to late 80s. I did all the selection of equipment, crossovers, crossover points, configuration and installation and tuning myself. I competed against others who had a pro shop do their stuff and I was still able to place between 3rd and 5th place at most of the events I attended. What kept me out of first was stupid bonus point rules they had back then. Have an upgraded altenator and get 5 points. Use dual batteries and get another 5 points. Many events I was in, I would have been in first place if I had only 3 to 4 more points. I was beat out by folks whose systems did not perform or sound as good as mine, but that had upgraded altenators with dual batteries and isolaters. So they would get 15 extra points for all those upgrades used in conjunction with one another. My issue, and the reason I stopped competing was that my system with 2 carvers did not require a larger altenator nor dual batteries. Carvers were very effecient and did not draw a lot of power. Plus, my car came from the factory with a 100 amp altenator. So why should I spring for a bigger altenator that I did not need?

My point being, I know alot already about sound quality and driver integration and about not mixing drivers in the critical areas. Some things have changed in this hobby, but others have stayed the same.

Also, if yall were going to help me out, you all would have done so already. After 69 views with no answer to my question, something had to be up. I got more replies once I insulted yall than before. To Immacomputer, with an avg of just under 9 posts per day, Im sure that if you were going to help me out, you would have done so before now. Thats the way I look at it.

I think Blazin Jason may have been right. You all read that I want to use 2 brands of subs and you all dismiss me like I am a red headed step child that does not know the first thing about car audio. Maybe Im wrong but its too late now. Whats done is done and whats said is said. If I were wrong, and yall prove that, then I would withdraw my opinion. As it is, you have proven him and me right so far.

I am sorry that this ended up in a flame. Thats not what I was after. Just some answers to some good clean fun. Thanks for ruining it.

 

[acreature 10+ year member]

So what we have here is a bunch of snob *** butt wipes that think they are better than me. What a waste this board is.

Thanks for ruining it.

I am sure that You are Welcome too.

 

[PowerNaudio 10+ year member]

i hope this helps.

Questions I have :

1:

With an L shape box, if the top of the L were (internal measurments) 5" deep, 12" wide and 14"tall, but the bottom were say 17" wide, 24" long but only 2" deep, would it actually sound good or work like I expect it to with the tunnel like 2" deep portion? If the box needs to have more volume, the bottom of the L is the only thing I have to adjust, but it needs to be no more than 2" deep so I can maintain cargo space.

it should sound fine, the shape altho it does changes the way the sound acts in the enclosure. you can cover the walls with a 1" thick layer of polyfill, that will keep the standing waves and resonance of the wall to a minimum

2:

What thickness of material, and what material should I use for the box? I will brace internally, but I want a dense, lightweight material. Cost is not really an issue. I really dont want to go fiberglass though.

go with 3/4" mdf is the most popular material to use. or like others have stated go with birch it creates less dust and its easier to cut.

always brace an enclosure enclosure when any of the baffle values reaches 12", specialy nessesary on sealed enclosures.

3:

I like SQ more than I like SPL so I will be building to favor SQ, but I will take some tradeoff to meet my space requirements. I used to tune to a sub system Q of .7 a long time ago. I learned and read that .7 was not always the best in a car system. so what Q should I tune for to get the balanced mix of what I want? I like country, rock, some rap, some new age. I want my music to be fairly accurate, but I want to get it to punch up for just plain fun as well.

the q alignment to build the enclosure, will depend mostly on the sub specs and on the vehicle its going in. so i sugest looking into your subs specs and what others install type that are into sq for your kind of vehicle and go from there. do some research on that department.

 

since youre using two difrent brand/model subs. i will suggest having one of each brand per side. rather then one brand on one side and the other brand on the other side. just to keep the sound balanced, and not have one side louder, punchier or ever more acurate then the other.

Thanks for any help you all can give me.

youre welcome.

laters

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

Also, if yall were going to help me out, you all would have done so already. After 69 views with no answer to my question, something had to be up. I got more replies once I insulted yall than before. To Immacomputer, with an avg of just under 9 posts per day, Im sure that if you were going to help me out, you would have done so before now. Thats the way I look at it.

Actually, I never even noticed your thread and the first time I read it, I was typing out a reply to your first post when I realized you had posted again. That's when I read the other posts and deleted what I had typed.

I think the main problem here isn't that you wanted to run multiple brands of subs but rather how lengthy your post was. There are many people here who don't want to read a ton of text when they want to be entertained and not help. It's sad but true.

So, take your question to http://www.elitecaraudio.com and they will help you out. Over there you can show off your old school e-penis and they might give a ****. You will fit in with all the other elitists over there.

 

[williemon]

Thanks Blazen Jason, and thanks PowerNaudio. Yall were the only two that tried to help.

Sorry this ended up a flame thread, but it is what it is. That kind of cocky attitude is why I left competition to begin with. Took all the fun out of it.

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

Took all the fun out of it.

You're the only one here with his head up his ***. You cried because nobody posted in your thread and then called us a name like a little kid. Guess what? Many people make threads that don't get any replies. We are not here to answer every single one of your questions and wipe your ***. Sorry.

 

[williemon]

Sorry guys. See this post:

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2482987#post2482987

 

[SyKo13 5,000+ posts]

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So this is what happened ey lol