3 amps, 6 pre outs HU, how to make it work?


OnePunch

CarAudio.com Newbie
Nov 14, 2020
16
1
Alabama
Afternoon guys and gals, got a build going on and I feel like I am missing something. Im a green thumb but im trying and I need help to make sure I'm doing this right.
I have Kenwood Excellon HU (six 5v preouts)
Two 4ch 400 watt Phoenix Gold Rx2 400.4
One Phoenix Gold RX2 1000.1 monoblock
3 Phoenix Gold 10s sealed box
2 sets of Phoenix Gold SX 6.5
1 set of Morel 2.5 inch mids
3 sets of 2 Ch Stinger X RCAs (2 more will be here later this week, debating on a system for the wife)
3 sets of 2 CH Stinger "Select" RCAs
No DSP yet, please don't recommend one, I have my eyes on a very particular one but it will not happen for a little while.

Today I installed all 6.5s without passive crossovers in all 4 doors including tweets in the rear, ran power to all amps, mounting tweets and morels in A pillar pods but I will be using the passive crossovers on the tweeters and bass blockers on the Morel 2.5s.
I got rained out before I could finish everything.

To get my system up and running off the ground do I need RCA splitters in the back of the HU for all 3 amps?
Someone told me I could run all 4 door 6.5s on one 4 ch amp and switch it to 2 ch mode and run one set of RCAs to the rear preout on the HU. Then run the tweets on the other amp in 2 ch mode with 1 set of RCAs to the front preouts.
Wire Morel 2.5s to HU and tame them in the HU settings.
He says it will work but ill lose my ability "fade" front and rear.

Whats everyone's thoughts? I am just trying to get my system off the ground functioning for right now without a dsp.

My truck interior is still 100% apart if anyone has suggestions on how I can make what I got work. If the part is under 100$ make the suggestion or if I can get it going with what I have please let me know.
 

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GTSQ

CarAudio.com Recruit
Jun 28, 2020
80
32
Idaho
Afternoon guys and gals, got a build going on and I feel like I am missing something. Im a green thumb but im trying and I need help to make sure I'm doing this right.
I have Kenwood Excellon HU (six 5v preouts)
Two 4ch 400 watt Phoenix Gold Rx2 400.4
One Phoenix Gold RX2 1000.1 monoblock
3 Phoenix Gold 10s sealed box
2 sets of Phoenix Gold SX 6.5
1 set of Morel 2.5 inch mids
3 sets of 2 Ch Stinger X RCAs (2 more will be here later this week, debating on a system for the wife)
3 sets of 2 CH Stinger "Select" RCAs
No DSP yet, please don't recommend one, I have my eyes on a very particular one but it will not happen for a little while.

Today I installed all 6.5s without passive crossovers in all 4 doors including tweets in the rear, ran power to all amps, mounting tweets and morels in A pillar pods but I will be using the passive crossovers on the tweeters and bass blockers on the Morel 2.5s.
I got rained out before I could finish everything.

To get my system up and running off the ground do I need RCA splitters in the back of the HU for all 3 amps?
Someone told me I could run all 4 door 6.5s on one 4 ch amp and switch it to 2 ch mode and run one set of RCAs to the rear preout on the HU. Then run the tweets on the other amp in 2 ch mode with 1 set of RCAs to the front preouts.
Wire Morel 2.5s to HU and tame them in the HU settings.
He says it will work but ill lose my ability "fade" front and rear.

Whats everyone's thoughts? I am just trying to get my system off the ground functioning for right now without a dsp.

My truck interior is still 100% apart if anyone has suggestions on how I can make what I got work. If the part is under 100$ make the suggestion or if I can get it going with what I have please let me know.
I’d go one amp front speakers one amp rear speakers in 2ch mode. You will want the ability to fade the rear.

From your amps manual: MODE - (FRONT, REAR AND SUB INPUTS)
Mode allows either 2ch, 4ch or 6(5) channel inputs
to be used to drive the amplifier and no use of Y-connectors are needed
 

Popwarhomie

CarAudio.com Elite VIP
5,000+ posts
10+ year member
Jan 22, 2010
9,322
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I run a set of 4 channel rcas to the rear. Then split the highs(top rcas) with splitters to a 4 channel for tweeters and the mids(middle rcas) with splitters to the mids amp. Sub outs will not need splitters.


Headunit doesn't have low, mid, high RCAs? Just sub, rear, front?

So
4 6.5" mids
4 tweeters from the component set
2 2.5 full ranges


The second set of components in the rear?

If so run all 4 components off one 4 channel with the passive crossovers
Run the 2.5" full ranges off the other amp with low power.

Until you get a DSP.
 

OnePunch

CarAudio.com Newbie
Nov 14, 2020
16
1
Alabama
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
My apologies if im a bit all over the place. I just wanted to make sure I didn't leave any info out you guys might need to guide me on this.

1 set of 2.5 Morel full range
2 sets of components
2 4ch
Hu only has front, rear, sub

1 set of components in the front
1 set in the back, all my wire is ran and I can ditch the crossovers or keep them or use them on tweets only. Let me know, It will only take me but a minute to rewire it however.

So im getting 2 routes i can go.
I'm following, im just a noob in the grand scheme of things so I will mull over whats been shared so far.

Thank you for your patience so far.
 

JRsmoothee

Think For Yourself, Question Authority - MJK
10+ year member
Aug 12, 2008
1,510
157
sitting on toilet
thats gonna be a nightmare to tune and get to sound good without a DSP.......goodluck!, and wish you even more luck when you get a DSP and start to actually tune......it amuses me how some people spend large amounts of money on equipment and skip out on a DSP (the most important factor IMO especially when DSPs are so cheap now)
 
Last edited:

KrisM

CarAudio.com Newbie
Sep 4, 2019
13
1
Houston
I am very curious as to how this new Phoenix Gold stuff holds up. Does it still sound as good as they used to?
 

KrisM

CarAudio.com Newbie
Sep 4, 2019
13
1
Houston
thats gonna be a nightmare to tune and get to sound good without a DSP.......goodluck!, and wish you even more luck when you get a DSP and start to actually tune......it amuses me how some people spend large amounts of money on equipment and skip out on a DSP (the most important factor IMO especially when DSPs are so cheap now)
I prefer to tune my systems myself, using my ears, passive and electronic crossovers. DSP's are cool, but I prefer to not use them.
 
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Kickstand

CarAudio.com Well Known
Jan 1, 2021
287
75
Maple Ridge
I am very curious as to how this new Phoenix Gold stuff holds up. Does it still sound as good as they used to?
They are not the company they used to be
They were bought out by a bigger company years ago and have become mediocre ever since.
 

JRsmoothee

Think For Yourself, Question Authority - MJK
10+ year member
Aug 12, 2008
1,510
157
sitting on toilet
I prefer to tune my systems myself, using my ears, passive and electronic crossovers. DSP's are cool, but I prefer to not use them.
to each their own lol.......once you get one you will never go back, makes things 1000x's easier
 
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OnePunch

CarAudio.com Newbie
Nov 14, 2020
16
1
Alabama
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
I'm back guys, it took me a few days because it was raining nonstop and I did not want to mix moisture and electronics. I got everything buttoned up and it sounds great and crystal clear. I mean I was blown away.
One thing my fiance and I noticed out the gate was I seemed to be missing certain highs. Like Queen "we will rock you" the intensity of the clap was muted. The clap was there, just not the high intensity of it if you clapped your fingers to your palm instead of palm to palm.. Or for example San Holo "lights" or "rise" it was like I was missing a certain high. (BTW if you haven't listened to those songs I recommend them.)
I ran 14g to the 6.5s and put all 4 on one 4 ch amp without passive crossovers. Switched it to 2 ch mode and ran 2 ch RCAs to it. Set RCAs to HU jacks rear and set frequency on HU for crossovers for "through"(no filter). Amp gain is at 9-10 o clock, lpf is at 80 and hpf 80-100 (still trying to find a good spot.
I ran 14g from the other amp to the crossovers and then 16g to the tweets. Then 16g from same amp to 2.5s with respective supplied inline filters. Amp set to 2 channel mode with 2ch RCAs on front HU jacks. Set amp to 7-8 o clock on gain, lpf "0" and hpf 200 (highest amp setting). HU frequency is set once again to "through"(no filter).
I've touched up on equalizer settings a hair. I think they go to 16k or 20k on HU. RCAs are top of the line. Subs are not hooked up because I wanted to get everything else right before introducing the bass.
All in all everything sounds phenomenal. This was my first install ive ever done ground up myself, start to finish. Im distortion free it seems and once again I've gotten some pretty amazing results.

Please don't criticize, I have a luimy 2020 model im going to bust out at some point this week to set gains. I ran out of time today. If anyone has pointers on settings or why I feel like I'm missing a note or notes please reach out. Feels like a "high" that's keeping it from sounding "full" i guess.
 

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OnePunch

CarAudio.com Newbie
Nov 14, 2020
16
1
Alabama
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
thats gonna be a nightmare to tune and get to sound good without a DSP.......goodluck!, and wish you even more luck when you get a DSP and start to actually tune......it amuses me how some people spend large amounts of money on equipment and skip out on a DSP (the most important factor IMO especially when DSPs are so cheap now)
I'm a newby....im just trying to get basics down. Let me play with the basics of of crossovers and equalizer setting before I throw a dsp In the mix. I can buy one right now, I'm just not ready for it I feel. Guess I could order it and put it in the closet just to say I got one since owning a dsp is such a popularity contest....
 

audiobaun

CarAudio.com Veteran
5,000+ posts
Jun 28, 2011
10,701
299
USA
to each their own lol.......once you get one you will never go back, makes things 1000x's easier
I like to use a Pre amp EQ myself. Plenty of on the Fly Tuning at your finger tips
 

ThxOne

AudioFreak
Jun 8, 2018
3,433
703
Saint Marys, GA
Two 4 channel amps (8 channels) and 10 speakers. Plus all the subwoofer stuff.

I am curious what your goal is with all that stuff. If you are learning then you are learning with a whole bunch of extra stuff to confuse yourself with. Follow my opinion for a moment:

Channels 1 and 2 would be the 2.5" and Tweeters in the A-Pillars. I would use a 2 way passive crossover on them as well. On the amp I would cross the high pass to them as high as I could or in the head unit to about 500hz. But only use one or the other crossover (amp or head unit, not both for the same frequency). If you use the head unit set the amp to FULL.

Channels 3 and 4 would be the 6.5" speakers in the front doors. I would hope the amplifier offers a band pass crossover for channels 3 and 4 but they don't. Does the head unit offer crossovers? If it does set the crossover to high pass around 80hz then on the amp set the crossover to low pass at 200hz. This will make a band pass for your door speakers of 80hz - 200hz.

I would then hook up your subs. Notice I have omitted the rear speakers. For now, this is not a bad idea. I would play with the front first with subs then DOWN THE ROAD purchase a DSP. Then you can add in the other amplifier and the DSP will give you the tools to use ALL the available amplifier channels. I run a 4 channel and a sub amp and a DSP. 2 tweeters 2 mids 2 midbass 2 subs. It is loud and pretty clean. I have passive crossovers on my near pillar mounted tweeters and mids. Sounds VERY full. A primitive DSP would be one of those old school electronic crossovers.

Your doors have many small holes and slots. I would look into mounting the speakers as tight to the door as possible and cover those holes and slots as best as you can.

Just some ideas. Ultimately it is all up to you. Lot's of luck to you.
 

OnePunch

CarAudio.com Newbie
Nov 14, 2020
16
1
Alabama
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
Two 4 channel amps (8 channels) and 10 speakers. Plus all the subwoofer stuff.

I am curious what your goal is with all that stuff. If you are learning then you are learning with a whole bunch of extra stuff to confuse yourself with. Follow my opinion for a moment:

Channels 1 and 2 would be the 2.5" and Tweeters in the A-Pillars. I would use a 2 way passive crossover on them as well. On the amp I would cross the high pass to them as high as I could or in the head unit to about 500hz. But only use one or the other crossover (amp or head unit, not both for the same frequency). If you use the head unit set the amp to FULL.

Channels 3 and 4 would be the 6.5" speakers in the front doors. I would hope the amplifier offers a band pass crossover for channels 3 and 4 but they don't. Does the head unit offer crossovers? If it does set the crossover to high pass around 80hz then on the amp set the crossover to low pass at 200hz. This will make a band pass for your door speakers of 80hz - 200hz.

I would then hook up your subs. Notice I have omitted the rear speakers. For now, this is not a bad idea. I would play with the front first with subs then DOWN THE ROAD purchase a DSP. Then you can add in the other amplifier and the DSP will give you the tools to use ALL the available amplifier channels. I run a 4 channel and a sub amp and a DSP. 2 tweeters 2 mids 2 midbass 2 subs. It is loud and pretty clean. I have passive crossovers on my near pillar mounted tweeters and mids. Sounds VERY full. A primitive DSP would be one of those old school electronic crossovers.

Your doors have many small holes and slots. I would look into mounting the speakers as tight to the door as possible and cover those holes and slots as best as you can.

Just some ideas. Ultimately it is all up to you. Lot's of luck to you.

My HU has a built in dsp. Matter of fact the Kenwood Excellon series has very nice 2 way and 3 way modes with built in crossovers, time alignment, and more. So I once again do not need a dsp atm. Also, Barry Scahnz book on crossovers and tuning was super helpful.

If you read my post you will see i did use my 2 way crossovers on the tweeters and wired in the filters the 2.5s came with. Matter of fact..did you read any of my response? I got most my tuning pretty damn close to make me happy as a peach on my trips across town.

I'm just stumped as to why I feel like I'm missing that certain high note. I'm wondering if im limited at the amp or HU because almost all of my sound is there and it's freaking awesome. Its just like that clap from Queens "we will rock you" or if you listen to Rammstien certain highs arnt quiet there. Ill try to adjust my band pass on the 6.5s how you suggested to see if I get better results. Is it because I can only go to 200 hz on the amp?

Guys I know I have an assload of speakers and channels. I reeeeealllly don't care. Its what I want. Its all in, its all powered, and for the most part it sounds great. Had a gentleman in my car today, gave me a verbal blow job over how great it sounded.

Now, im just trying to figure out why my clap doesn't sound "full". Its like a flat clap. Hollow clap? Damn, it's hard to explain.
 

OnePunch

CarAudio.com Newbie
Nov 14, 2020
16
1
Alabama
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
What I've concluded is that there may be some type of noise cancelation going on with my tweets and the 2.5s...I feel like I happily have my 6.5s dialed in now. Very happy with my subwoofers too

Maybe if I put the mids on the woofer output of my phoenix gold crossovers it might help? I read somewhere that reversing the polarity of the tweets and mids might work.
Frustrating. I can almost taste what I desire.
 

OnePunch

CarAudio.com Newbie
Nov 14, 2020
16
1
Alabama
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
What I've concluded is that there may be some type of noise cancelation going on with my tweets and the 2.5s...I feel like I happily have my 6.5s dialed in now. Very happy with my subwoofers too

Maybe if I put the mids on the woofer output of my phoenix gold crossovers it might help? I read somewhere that reversing the polarity of the tweets and mids might work.
Frustrating. I can almost taste what I desire.
 

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ThxOne

AudioFreak
Jun 8, 2018
3,433
703
Saint Marys, GA
Yes, I did read your post. I am familiar with Kenwood eXcelon head units.

Why wouldn't you use the woofer output of the crossover for the 2.5" speakers? The whole point of the crossover is to run both the tweeter and the mid off the same power source, the same channel of the amp. I am sure you will figure it out.
 

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