225-250 watts to xxx 6.5's IB?

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Well the title pretty much says it all. Due to amp restrictions (building a second system for another one of my trucks, wanting to use spare parts I have laying around) my only choices to power my xxx 6.5's is either a 60x2 watt amp (@2ohms), 100x2 or one that does between 225-250 per channel. These are in the doors of my 98 Dodge RAM 4x4 (fully deadened etc) so they are gonna be running infinite baffle. Anyone run as much as 250 watts to their xxx mids IB? And no, turning my gains down wont be an option as I'll already need them to be at or very near their minimum setting (using older amps and a h/u with a hot signal). This is for a simple 2-way setup btw. The tweeters will either be powered by their own 30x2 amp or 50x2.

Any experience in this regard you guys could share would be appreciated. TIA.

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[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

you''ll likely bottom them out with that much power IB.

n00b.

 

[HeatSeeker 10+ year member]

You should sell those xxx's to me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif j/p

But with IB I would probably only run them 100w each

I was debating this myself, and I think I'm gonna end up putting them in enclosures and giving em 200 a piece, only because I'm putting 2 in each door, and I'm sure it'll be a pain in the *** either way..

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

And no, turning my gains down wont be an option as I'll already need them to be at or very near their minimum setting (using older amps and a h/u with a hot signal). This is for a simple 2-way setup btw. The tweeters will either be powered by their own 30x2 amp or 50x2.

Given the assumption you are using an active crossover, any reason you can't use the level matching function of the active crossover (be it internal in the HU or external) to attenuate the amplifier's output?

Or, you would simply be limited on volume level you could use. Rather than having lower gains for the system with a wider volume control range at the headunit, you would be limited on the volume control range and need to use higher gains for the rest of the system. If that makes sense. Sounds right in my head, but I can't put it into words very well.....LOL

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Given the assumption you are using an active crossover, any reason you can't use the level matching function of the active crossover (be it internal in the HU or external) to attenuate the amplifier's output?
Or, you would simply be limited on volume level you could use. Rather than having lower gains for the system with a wider volume control range at the headunit, you would be limited on the volume control range and need to use higher gains for the rest of the system. If that makes sense. Sounds right in my head, but I can't put it into words very well.....LOL

I know exactly what you're saying, and you're right. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif The volume control on the h/u does affect output signal voltage, hence I could use it to limit my voltage and set up the other amp with the more sensitive gain setting. But, the problem is the amps Im thinking of using are some of my old collection of RF bbq style amps whose max input voltage was 3V. My h/u already puts out more than that (Alpine 7949... 4V iirc) so Im already going to be limiting signal voltage via the volume knob. Im afraid if I run the bigger amp, run its gain at the minimum and adjust the tweeter amp's sensitivity up a bit and figure on using the volume knob to further limit sibnal voltage, Im really going to be losing alot of adjustability of the volume at some point. So Im hoping to avoid that situation if I can.

As for using the xover's level matching pots, Im not using an external xover, at least not at this point. I do have one laying around I could use if necessary, but at this point I should be able to set all my necessary xo points via the crossovers in the amps and the limited xover functions in the in-dash EQ I'll be using. Trying to limit the number and size of components used here, as they are all going under my bench seat. Im not even going with a sub in this system. Thanks for the input squeak. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

The plan for now is to run only this front stage, actively (off the amp overs). I'll run the tweeter amp off the front outputs and the mids off the rears to allow for blending via the fader on the EQ. Eventually I need to find a capable tweeter and passive to match these xxx mids so I can free up the second amp to get the rear door speakers working again. Basically this is my daily driver/4x4 that Im just messing with, not the Blazer which is where the serious system is going. Will probably change it alot. Mainly wanting to find out what these xxx mids can do and then go from there. I also have a little USAmps amp coming in in a couple weeks that I believe is 150 watts X2 @2ohms that I can try also.

Thanks for the replies guys. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

LOL.....no need to be worried about a 1V difference in input sensitivity. Remember, that's at max volume with 0db test tones, where as music is typically recorded in a -6db to -10db range. Which means, with -6db music, the RMS output of that deck is going to be 1V at max volume.

Hell, I'm running an 8V Eclipse into my Coustic DR amps ("max" input voltage of 1500mv [1.5V])....and I AFAIK I have yet to max out the amp's input stage with music.

David Navone recommends setting amplifier gains with a -10db test tone......which would put that deck's voltage output well below 1V. Giving you a lot of room to play with the gain.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

LOL.....no need to be worried about a 1V difference in input sensitivity. Remember, that's at max volume with 0db test tones, where as music is typically recorded in a -6db to -10db range. Which means, with -6db music, the RMS output of that deck is going to be 1V at max volume.
Hell, I'm running an 8V Eclipse into my Coustic DR amps ("max" input voltage of 1500mv [1.5V])....and I AFAIK I have yet to max out the amp's input stage with music.

You know that's true, Ive run these amps with 4V heads before and not had/needed the gains at minimum, now that I think about it. Wish the **** things had clipping indicators on them like they should. I'll just have to borrow a buddy's o-scope I guess. I dunno tho, now I have alot of options. lol A couple hundred watts really would make those things flex. hmmmm //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

You snuck in before I was done editing //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

You snuck in before I was done editing //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

LOL Im fast. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Im gonna go out and get some more sound deadening done after this reply, been sitting here too long anyway. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif So you're saying David recommends setting the gains with a -10db tone for purposes of more closely matching actual levels while the system plays music? Wouldn't that bring about clipping if/when there were any peak responses in the music? That's interesting, I'll have to look into it. Thanks again squeak.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Save you some trouble //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4256&hl=

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/woot.gif.aaa6090e619a97b6090d16dd863c5a69.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Save you some trouble //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4256&hl=

Great link squeak thanks, I have alot of reading to do. Surprised Id never heard of this before. A couple of the highlights Ive seen so far:

"hwc----a 3:1 gain oerlap will rarely result in "hard clipping" with music material----thats why it is not audible---the facts are that if the gains are set for 1:1 with typical music material the most amount of AVERAGE POWER you can achieve is about 10% of the amps rated power----this means that the 100 watt amp would only deliver about 10 average watts to the speakers-----will that protect them?----you bet it will-----just like keeping a Ferrari in first gear----but does that seem reasonable?-------a reasonable overlap will allow use of a lot more of the amps power and takes advantage of our inability to hear the effect of short term events...........RC" - Richard Clark

"you lost me at dave navone" - Supa c

Supa cracks me up.

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

Once you set it like this, you'll never go back to the other way

 

[Feandil 10+ year member]

you''ll likely bottom them out with that much power IB.
n00b.

well before that unless he wants to cross them for 150hz HP

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

And in his case it really helps.....because if he does set the gains with a 0db test tone, with music he will receive less total power from the amplifiers.