2008 350Z - Budget install - need ideas.

[Chromatic]

Hey guys,.. not sure what happened to my first thread.

Anyhow,.. I bought a 2008 350z with the Base clarion speakers in it.. (really bad speakers).. Headunit -- Pioneer AVH-P4100DVD, double din, touch screen. (I replaced the tt's in the link with xx's.. )

So.. have good head unit installed ready to go.

I also have A pair of MB-Quart-QM-160-KX-70watt-6.5 inch coaxials.. If they will fit.

The 350z has it's own components, with the tweeter up high by the window. Given I already have these Mb Quarts,.. will they sound good even if they are down low without a separate tweeter up high?

If I can use the front speakers I have,.. and I know I can use the installed Pioneer headunit -- Then that helps the budget.

I'm looking for a good budget system with high Sound Quality.. but I do NOT need car rattling bass. One 8" sub will do just fine, but will go 10 inch as well. (IE: I'd be happy with the sound of the Monsoon premium OEM system in Solstices).

Think I could get this goal done for $350-$500?

I am going to bring it somewhere for install,.. If I had just front door speakers to install, an amp , and an 8 inch sub to install.. what am I probably going to pay for installation?

If installation costs are crazy high, would I be better off just buying the fronts, sub, and amp at a local shop where they would install it free?

So, given my budget of $350-500 or so... what do you think I should go for?

I'm open minded to anything that'l do the job.

I'm open to buying everything used/second hand.

I was thinking if these MB Quarts can be used, then I need an amp that will push 70-75watts x 2 for the MB Quart coaxials,.. and the same amp (or a secondary one) for the single sub.. either an 8" or 10" sub -- just whatever you guys recommend for my needs. I listen to Rock, Alternative,.. no country, no rap really.. So it's more Rock type of bass patterns.

If there is just NO way to get this done without ME installing it all.. then spell it out what I need to do it myself,.. But if I can pay someone $100 to install it.. I'll do that all day long!

Thanks so much!

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[Chromatic]

Sniff //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif No one wants to help me? ... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[mylows10 5,000+ posts]

Your budget prolly won't give you what your looking for I'd get components instead of the coaxials first off and a decent 8. Like a morel but you'll still need deadener ,box, and wires for the install with your small budget if you get lucky you might find what you want sub and amp wise used and still have a few bucks left but not enough for everything. I'd start with the front stage ,ie components and amp with wires , get that where you want then save for the sub and box to complete the sub stage $700-$800 plus install would get you some decent equipment

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

No one offering free installations is going to do the job right, so I would stay far away from a shop offering free installations on speakers and amplifiers. A top quality shop that will return your vehicle with 0 damage and much better sound is probably going to charge $350 minimum just for labor. I took the $350 from your stated budget range.

If you were having a room in your house remodeled, would you look for a professional who will donate his time if you buy materials from him, or would you expect to pay by the hour?

Don't take this as a knock against DIY, I'm trying to offer a different perspective.

 

[Chromatic]

Thanks for the replies..

I upped the budget it was $350.. then I said there's no way I can get 3 speakers done for that.. so I went to $500. I understand the "free installs" and the installers being questionable.

I had a headunit installed by sound great in a Lexus I had back in 07.. and the guy did a top notch job on the install.. and boosted the factory amp (after asking me) for free with some part I forget (I'm sure it wasn't healthy for the stock sub.. but it was stock and I didn't care much if it died). BUT,.. he did accidentally slice a 1 inch slit into the side of the passenger seat.

I'm not the customer who let's that stuff slide.. unfortunate for them I guess.. but free install or not.. you mess up something on the car, or something is off .. I'm going to ride you till it's fixed by a pro.

Which I did here.. they were hesitant about the slash in the leather initially.. and I said Look,.. this didn't have a slash in it when I just brought it in,.. don't make this a hassle on both of us getting corporate involved,.. Just take the honus for the mistake and pay for it. They said, ok, you go get it fixed and we'll pay the tab.

I got a guy who repairs this kind of stuff who comes to you.. had him fix it (great job btw).. and then I took THAT guy immediately to Sounds great (I didn't pay him a dime).. and explained who I was and why I was there. They visually weren't happy about it.. but they cut him a check right there and we parted ways.

It was like a $60 repair.. they lost some of their overhead in the markup of the headunit.. probably all of it cause the installer made a careless mistake. It happens.

On another note -- In my 91 300ZX -- I had 2 JL 12" subs, in a custom box (built by them).. A kenwood amp for each sub to power them individually ( 2 subs, 2 amps).. bought at the time A kenwood (IIRC) headunit,.. the MB Quarts I still have and have pictured in this thread.. another Kenwood amp powering those MB Quarts at 75 watts x 2 channels (RMS)..

The installers did a free install .. and they went above and beyond on this install. They used I believe 4 Gauge wire.. (If may have the number wrong, but it looked like a waterhose going from Battery to A nice 3-4 Inch Fuse box. (Was like $20 a foot or something.. That was free).. the 300ZX's had the Bose systems in them and they had the amps built on the speakers so when you removed them there was a TON of space in there. They built the wood enclosures (you see in the pics) to form fit the inside of those 300ZX doors for best sound (for free). It took them a full day to get it done.. which is fine,.. but nothing was messed up.. doors were tight as factory.. and that was the best sounding system in my Highschool -- I spent like $1500 on that due to 3 amps, 2 subs, box, 2 6.5" coaxials, and headunit.. While others that would compare systems with me had spent 2-3-4 times the amount. I could only tell them it must be something about the subs rear facing the hatch in this car and the accoustics is why this sounds so much better than yours. I didn't know why.. they were only 12w1's.. with IIRC 100watts RMS going to each. And it was CLEAN.. VERY clean.. and the kind of bass you could hear miles down the road.

I do NOT want that kind of bass now.. Just enough thump to fill in with the mids and highs well..

$350 install, man that's steep. I have several options here.

1) Buy equipment online (that I still need help with.. mainly on what Amp(s) to buy and mids/tweets) and just take the install on myself.. spend a weekend on my car.

2) Go to a local sound shop that is NOT a chain.. these places do better installs in my experience. Pick it all out from there.. and tip the install guy $20 or something before I leave to try and take a little extra time/car with the car.

3) Buy everything online.. and pay $350 to have 3 speakers and 1 or 2 max amps installed.

Again,.. I'm a fan of JL Audio Subs.. had great experience with them in the past and the price is right on them. I'll go 8" or 10" with them.. I figure I might as well go with a JL audio 10w1 for $110 or so,.. get a 350z custom box for $100 on ebay or similar.. and you guys are saying do NOT use my MB Quarts.. I'll trust you on that,.. and buy (X) Component 6.5" mids with separate tweeters.

Headunit I have stays.. not matter what. It has 4v Preouts.. and more importantly I like the way it looks and it's easy to read and the touch screen operates very well.

Now.. The 10" JL w1 (or even a w0) is probably more bass than I'm looking for.. BUT, I can turn that sub down until it gives the right mix of bass I want, correct?

So with that in mind:

Could you guys recommend name brands that aren't crazy expensive (remember I'm not looking for competition stuff here).. and links for the 6.5" mids I need for front doors and the tweeters needed for the doors (usually come in a set).

The sub is either gonna be a JL 8 or 10" w0 or w1 -- Give your thoughts on that.. and give me what amp would power it 'well enough'.. remember this is a budget.

And.. it'd be nice to run 1 amp for the mids, tweets and 1 sub.. but if 1 amp can't do that.. then give me link/ideas for the amp that is not crap, but not crazy expensive to run the front stage.

You can play with the budget a little if you have to. If you find the perfect combo that runs $650 total or something.. that's fine. I'm only looking for like a 50 percent upgrade over these 18watt clarion factory speakers.. nothing major.

If I got something that sounded like the Monsoon factory system in my 2006 pontiac solstice, I'd be perfectly happy.

If I got something that sounded like the factory system in my 1994 Lexus LS400 , I'd be content. Expectations aren't super high here.

Thanks!

 

[Chromatic]

Ok.. I am asking this same question on 2 forums.. Here is a somewhat condensed version of what I'm after. Maybe it will help any confusion, and get some replies to help me out.

1) I'm after an upgrade to factory sound, nothing crazy loud or that rattles the car.

2) I will be buying a JL sub. I listen to rock music/alternative mainly (no rap no country) -- Should I get an 8" or 10" ?

3) On the JL Audio Sub -- Should I go with W0 or W1 -- They are similar in price?

4) If my MB Quarts MB Quart QM-160 KX (6.5" Coaxial Mids with 1" tweeters on top) [70watts RMS] Fit,.. which with spacers they definitely should -- Should I use them? I've gotten some saying Yes, they are great speakers, and some are like no.. Buy components. I think people are forgetting I'm after an upgrade not a competition system. These MB Quarts are $500 coaxial speakers, made in Germany and still work (they always had a cross-over on them, never were abused).

5) My head unit is the Pioneer pictured in thread -- and it's awesome, with 4volt pre-outs.

6) So having MB quarts to throw in doors, Pioneer headunit already installed,.. I'm in need of ONE amp to drive the MB Quarts at 75watts x 2 ,.. and have enough in the amp to drive a single 8" or 10" JL Audio W1 Sub.

7) So basically,... I have a few questions that need answered:

a) Link me an amp or a few that are mid range.. like Kenwood , Alpine etc.. that will run 75watts x 2 and Work for let's just say a JL Audio 10" W1 sub.

b) Given the MB Quarts I have are coaxial,.. and the speaker grills on the 350z are terribly restrictive.. any links to aftermarket grills that will fit in the 350z to let these speakers not be "muffled" ?

c) Links to wiring kits if I choose to install myself.

This is all really , really simple.

I have the mids and highs already,.. I have the headunit installed already,.. I am only using 1 sub,.. JL Audio 10" w1 (or w0 if you guys say go for w0). I just need links to amps that will run these 3 speakers! (I want to run ONE amp.. there's no reason for my purposes I need to run multiple amps. A single amp can drive 2 70watt door speakers, and a single JL low end 10" sub.)

Don't forget,.. What can I do about these restrictive factory grill/speaker covers in the door? Bound to be some cheap replacement or modification to existing ones to let the door speakers perform at their peak (No pods..) This is budget.

Thanks!

 

[ChaseinBass]

I want 350.00 just for reading all that:wow:

 

[calebkhill 10+ year member]

Man. It's time to do side research.

Sounds like you REALLY want a system. But you don't want to install it.. why?

You could actually do a better job than a shop, 100% your way.... And save some money.

Could probably find a local audio guy to build your a box fur cheap.

If you diy, you'll save money, learn, do it your way, and all that matters.

If you get a shop to do it, there's a chance you don't like how it sounds, and then you'll find out that you don't have the knowledge to make it better, or something in the install will have to be modified, which means back to the shop $$ you go.

DIY and research bud

 

[Chromatic]

Man. It's time to do side research.Sounds like you REALLY want a system. But you don't want to install it.. why?

I'm already putting Front A-Arms on the car, Rear Camber arms.. and having to drill out the subframe to put in aftermarket toe bolts as we speak..

I don't REALLY want a system,.. I just want an upgraded decent sounding sound. A "System" to me is what I had years ago with tons of bass etc. This is a three speaker setup.. One amp.

I'm doing research man,.. I really am. But Trying to fish wires through holes I don't even know where they exist from the headunit through some hole in the door hinge (only thing I can think of logical.. the wires have to get to the door without getting squished by the door..) -- Having to run power wires from battery to a fuse box near the amp.. running wires from amp to the sub is no big deal.. obviously.. running wires (under carpet?) then into the doors I've no clue. I can figure it out.. no doubt. But, I'd rather pay $200 bucks for someone else to do it in THIS case.. Put on new brake calipers, pads.. water pump.. alternator whatever.. I'm fine with.. but wiring with my huge hands and fishing wires I hate with a passion! But sounds like what I'll end up doing. So let's just pretend, I'm installing it myself.

Happy?

What I don't understand, is why no one will simply answer a few of my questions? I mean I've settled on speaker type, I have headunit.. All I guess I'm amazed no one has replied with is What brand of amp and a link to one or two that would run the very specific requirements I have listed.

I know people on forums want everyone to do their own searching and figure it out themselves.. but can't a guy be thrown ONE bone?

I'm not just saying, hey I have a car and want a system.. what do I get?

I'm saying -- I have the 70watt rms 6.5" coaxial Mb Quarts,.. JL W1 10" sub (I asked about 8 vs 10.. but if no one wants to reply, that's ok).. And the pioneer Headunit. From MY research I am thinking a Kenwood or Alpine amp at 4 channels would be pretty fair mid range amp to fit the budget,.. yes, no? Other brands? What amps to stay away from? Whats the bottom line amp that is still good enough to run a simple 3 speaker setup like I'm discussing?

You could actually do a better job than a shop, 100% your way.... And save some money.

Yes, you are probably right. I'm just missing experience with audio installs/wiring. And again, with my budget, I'll be installing it.. it always ends up that way.

Could probably find a local audio guy to build your a box fur cheap.

I can build the box if I wanted to go that route. But there are SO MANY 350z enclosures at all different prices.. why build? When I can buy an exact fit enclosure for $90 bucks? That's carpet, right cubic space for the speaker size.. has the audio input/output installed etc..

If you diy, you'll save money, learn, do it your way, and all that matters.

If you get a shop to do it, there's a chance you don't like how it sounds, and then you'll find out that you don't have the knowledge to make it better, or something in the install will have to be modified, which means back to the shop $$ you go.

DIY and research bud

I'll be installing.. ok that's settled. So maybe a little "advice" on amps for my speaker setup ? If I'm installing, have any preferred Wiring kits to buy? Tool wise,.. Anything special I really need?

In my head I was thinking.. to route wires from headunit to doors.. maybe I tie new larger gauge wire to speaker wire at back of headunit.. and pull it through the door .. that work? Seems like a smart way to feed wires and save headache. But I don't know..

Thanks,

 

[calebkhill 10+ year member]

Ok man, my bad. I apologize.

So you just need recommendations on equipment.

Now, I'll recommend, but idk how much installation will be. Itll be expensive. I'd say buy all you're equipment, then save the funds for installation.

Even so, you can always ask us for tuning, that's the less labor involved aspect to get your system sounding better. We could work on making the installed system better..

So, your keeping the stock tweets, the coax are 75rms, and you're getting an 8/10" sub.

Tweets - tell the installer to run the front high level output from the wiring harness to the stock tweets. Now, what crossover settings does your head unit allow. Check, then report back. If possible, since you're running coax in the door, is hpf the dash tweets at, 10-16khz.

Again, check and report back, your head unit may not allow that.

If not, you can use your fader and fade to the rear channels (coax) to cut the volume if needed from those tweets.

Coax - I'd say get a 100 watt amp per channel. Any two or 4 channel amp would work decent. These are a few, tons fur sale out there.

ppi 900.4 - 179$ New 145x4

Precision Power PPI P900.4 (p9004) 4-Channel Phantom Car Amplifier

Zapco Reference 350.2 150x2 - 180 used

This is top of the line quality equipment.

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/amplifier-classifieds/596867-fs-us-acoustic-audio-art-zapco-kenwood-eclipse-mtx-plus-others.html

JL Slash 300/2 - 150x2 150$ obo used

FS/FT JL Audio 300/2 slash v2 amplifier and more... - Car Audio Classifieds

Subs

Dayton HO 10 - These are getting good reviews every day

Dayton Audio RSS265HO-4 10" Reference HO Subwoofer 4 Ohm | 295-462

Sub amp..

I'll let someone chime in on subs and amps.... until I can later...

 

[Chromatic]

Ok man, my bad. I apologize.

I appreciate the apology, but no need to apologize. And, Roll Tide. I live in Birmingham //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

So you just need recommendations on equipment.

Now, I'll recommend, but idk how much installation will be. Itll be expensive. I'd say buy all you're equipment, then save the funds for installation.

I may end up with a little more budget than initially thought.. but still I don't want to just spend money to spend it ya know.

Even so, you can always ask us for tuning, that's the less labor involved aspect to get your system sounding better. We could work on making the installed system better..

For sure!

So, your keeping the stock tweets, the coax are 75rms, and you're getting an 8/10" sub.

Well,. This is how the car is setup. It's a 2008 350z BASE.. which means it's a nice car, but doesn't have cruise control and has terrible Clarion speakers in it.

The stock setup is 6.5" mids in the front doors (normal location).. a tweeter in by the window/pillar (not sure if it's even in the base model.. but the slot is there).. and two 6.5" mids behind the seats about neck level. The base has all the spots the "premium" system in the 350z has.. Mainly it has a panel behind the driver seat that the Factory sub is mounted into .. just in my model it's just covered with a panel.. So a sub can go there.. be nice actually to have it there hidden -- You pull the panel off behind the seat and you have this:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7979/photo15nh.jpg

Obviously someone's putting something in there.. amp, sub.. not sure. But you see the space.

Here's a picture of the actual stock sub in that slot:

http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/ImageHandler/scale/489/489/ca/learningcenter/articles/3146/subspeaker.jpg

That's obviously with the cover/panel/grill pulled off.

Here's a few pictures of what people have done with that slot with aftermarket subs:

http://www.350z-tech.com/forums/attachments/audio-electronics/41003d1186619192-enclosure-factory-sub-location-kshep_eclipse_subwoofer.jpg

http://tinypic.com/etzmnc.jpg

And here are some other options that are common:

They make these boxes for $100 or so to fit 1 sub, or 2.. of any size really.. but mostly 8 or 10".. most commonly 10" -- It fits under the crossbar. (I'd prefer not to take up trunk space.. but just to show you:

http://liljerk.morpheus.net/350Z/sub_enclosure/images/sub_box.jpg

Here's one with two subs:

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2363/1081/30905540008_large.jpg?v=0

Then there are SUPER expensive enclosures I'd love to have that fit in a corner .. but these are like $350 just for the enclosure:

http://www.wickedcas.com/gallery/d/14023-3/350Z+Corner+sub+box

So you see there are a ton of options in this car.

But Yes,.. I think it would be wise monetarily to use my MB Quart 160 KX Coaxials 6.5" mids (with 1 inch tweeters that run over the middle of them) in the front doors. They sounded phenomenal in my 300ZX,.. they should sound great now, no? They are 70watts RMS. I ran 75watts x 2 when I previously ran them.

And yes -- and 8" or 10" sub. I don't want trunk rattling ear blowing bass.. just a nice punch you get with most premium factory sound systems (maybe a HAIR more.. but not much..).

The size may come down to pricing.. and being able to fit it in a better location? What do you recommend? (I love JL Audio.. never heard a bad sounding one, and their w1 series is priced right around 100 bucks.. and I don't need more than 1 sub.)

Tweets - tell the installer to run the front high level output from the wiring harness to the stock tweets.

Well, these are coaxials.. so no tweets except the 1" tweeters built onto the MB Quart 6.5" mid. (and the stock tweeter is just disconnected) (unless I buy a new set of speakers for mids/highs) will be run to the stock tweets.

ALL the speakers in this BASE sound system are bottom of the line Clarion 18watt speakers.. they are absolutely horrible .. You would be a little surprised at how bad this 6 speaker setup is.. The premium system from Nissan in this car sounds not bad.. I probably wouldn't do anything if I had it.

But.. Looking at my MB Quarts:

These are my actual speakers (bad picture..)

MB-Quart-QM-160-KX-70watt-6.5 inch | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

They have two speaker inputs.. a positive and negative on one side of the magnet, and a positive and negative on the otherside. (I'm not genius with this obviously) -- but that tells me one terminal goes to the tweeter, and other to the 6.5" mid. -- Surely the installer wouldn't run the highpass to the Mids and "mids" to the tweeters?

Anyhow, as you see in the picture they come with cross-overs -- Two of them, one for each speaker -- They say "12 dB crossover, Made in Germany" on them.

I remember buying a Crossover separate a year or two after I had my old system for like $50-60 bucks and it worked excellent, and I had super fine control over the subs and mids with it. I'd fork out a little money if that was needed.

Now, what crossover settings does your head unit allow. Check, then report back. If possible, since you're running coax in the door, is hpf the dash tweets at, 10-16khz.

Again, check and report back, your head unit may not allow that.

If not, you can use your fader and fade to the rear channels (coax) to cut the volume if needed from those tweets.

Ok unless I buy new speakers which I don't think I should cause these are really good high end speakers (even if old).. The factory tweeters are just going to be disconnected. Furthermore,.. Everyone says to just disconnect the 6.5" factory mids behind the seats because they are so bad, and the front speakers provide all you need for the 2 seater car.

As for headunit,.. I honestly don't know exactly all it's capabilities.. but it has a parametric EQ that I can adjust each band fairly easily... This is the headunit if it helps:

AVH-P4100DVD - In-Dash Double-DIN DVD Multimedia AV Receiver with 7" Widescreen Display | Pioneer Electronics USA

Coax - I'd say get a 100 watt amp per channel. Any two or 4 channel amp would work decent. These are a few, tons fur sale out there.

Ok,.. I can run a sub amp, and a separate amp for the 2 other speakers in front -- But wouldn't it be cheaper and work just fine to run say a 4 channel amp that ran 75x2 to the fronts.. then the other 2 channels bridged for 150watts to a JL w1 sub? (Could even buy a $50-60 crossover and mount it somewhere for good control over the bass/mids/highs) ?

Hope that clears everything up!

Thanks for your help, really..

 

[calebkhill 10+ year member]

Ok. Roll Tide! How about that auburn game, psh. .

anywhoo.

Few things i gather.

So, your unhooking tweets. Reason i said to keep them, is because with all your sound coming from left and right doors, it's very likely that your music will sound like it's coming from hard left and hard right, no blending.

And iunderstand your factory speakers sound bad, but If you had your mids ran up to 10-16kHz, and let the tweets cover that, the tweets will only be playing the highest highs (air, atmosphere), which should be well within their performing range, and help to spread/ bring your stage more out front and create better envelope.

If you're worried about price, check these out.

Vifa xt25 - 30$ a set?

Found My Tweeter- Vifa XT25 SC90 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

If you're dead set on eliminating tweets, go fur it.

Sounds like you are considering jl w1s.

No matter what sub, the enclosure must be built according to its specs in order for it to sound right.

I'm not a sub guy, but I'd get a sub guy to give you box recommendations for whatever sub you go with according to the airspace you have (in the factory sub location or trunk), and have someone build the box to those specs.

If they just build the box to fit, rather than building it to specs, there's a chance it'll sound bad. This is important for subs.

75 watts is decent.

But in order to have clear sound that stays clear through all volume levels, you want to give your speakers some headroom.

And this is important.

Problem with using a single 4 channel and bridging 2 channels to the subs is most of the time you bridge at 2 ohms (most amps are only stable at 4ohms bridged). Now if you bridge a single 4 ohm sub, the load stays at 4 ohms, the amp is stable. But if you bridge 2 subs, the amp now sees 2 ohms bridged, it is unstable, and will not function properly, run hot, clip, probably damage.

So you either buy a single high wattage amp, or run 2 separate amps with ample power to each.

Another option is the Exodus Anarchy 6.5" sub......

 

[Chromatic]

Ok. Roll Tide! How about that auburn game, psh. .anywhoo.

Yeah that game was about as gut-wrenching as a game I've ever felt.. just really unexpected, and took our number 1 season and trampled on it.. plus with a returned 57 yd field goal attempt in the last second to win.. nuts. But, I'm getting over it. Saban acccepting his 7.x million contract at Alabama when Texas offered 10million makes me feel better,.. I think Saban will stay and end his career at tuscaloosa.

Few things i gather.

So, your unhooking tweets. Reason i said to keep them, is because with all your sound coming from left and right doors, it's very likely that your music will sound like it's coming from hard left and hard right, no blending.

Yeah,.. I'd have to go have a double look to see if the Base model even has tweeters going.. But, these speakers are about the quality of buying Walmart $29 speakers.. honestly. There bad enough that even having them on will muddle any mid range to higher end speakers.

And iunderstand your factory speakers sound bad, but If you had your mids ran up to 10-16kHz, and let the tweets cover that, the tweets will only be playing the highest highs (air, atmosphere), which should be well within their performing range, and help to spread/ bring your stage more out front and create better envelope.

If you're worried about price, check these out.

Vifa xt25 - 30$ a set?

Found My Tweeter- Vifa XT25 SC90 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

If you're dead set on eliminating tweets, go fur it.

No I'm not deadset on eliminating tweeters -- Obviously my MB Quarts I have .. HAVE nice tweeters built into them.. it's just the location of them that is probably what your most concerned about (being down low in the doors).

If I bought a set of tweeters just to pair them with the MBquarts I have.. which isn't a bad idea -- would I NOT run the tweeter on the MB quarts in the door, and just run the set of tweeters placed up high? Or would it still be beneficial to run BOTH the component (high placement) tweeters AND the tweeters on the MB quart mids that are built over top as coaxials? Interesting thought, idea.. No idea how that would work.

I'm telling you these MB Quarts (if they sound like they used to) -- are quite impressive. I had two 12" JL's that won minor awards in minor competitions.. and it was primarily due to the accoustics of the car (which is VERY similar to the 350z) -- Those subs were in a 300ZX hatchback.. this is a 350Z hatchback.. the cars are shaped very similarly.. Point is these MB Quarts in the doors SCREAMED with no distortion at ridiculous volume levels.. To keep up with the bass produced in that system I had years ago.. it was actually quite remarkable what that setup did.

Sounds like you are considering jl w1s.

No matter what sub, the enclosure must be built according to its specs in order for it to sound right.

I'm not a sub guy, but I'd get a sub guy to give you box recommendations for whatever sub you go with according to the airspace you have (in the factory sub location or trunk), and have someone build the box to those specs.

If they just build the box to fit, rather than building it to specs, there's a chance it'll sound bad. This is important for subs.

Yup, I'm familiar with the concept -- Never built a box.. but I know subs are rated for X cubic feet of space non ported,.. and a different rating if ported, etc. I'd probably match sub to Box rather than vice versa -- Sounds weird, but money wise.. the enclosures for even ONE sub,.. is WAY more expensive than even a mid-high end sub. (And I'm not doing more than one sub.. I don't want car rattling bass.. I want that clean punch.. that's all.) Which is why doing something in the factory location behind my passenger seat would be super ideal.. cause I don't want to take up room in the trunk,.. and a rear facing sub is going to push out insane bass in that car because of the shape.. It would be rear facing on a hatchback,.. and I know it'd be like the 300ZX .. I'd get A LOT more out of a W1 JL with even 100-150watts on it than some get with 500+watts and better subs. Sounds odd, but the car and where the sub is placed makes a HUGE difference.

Subs with less airspace,.. behind a seat, etc.. Are going to be weaker, by nature.. and for my purpose that's really a "Preferred" thing as odd as that sounds. Which is why something like an 8" JL Audio sub with 75-100 watts RMS would be ALL I wanted .. mounted behind the seat, or in an enclosure in the corner like that one picture I linked of the Wicked Cas enclosure:

Wicked C.A.S.*::*MAGIC BOXES*::*Nissan*::*Nissan 350Z Corner 1x10 Enclosure Sub box Subwoofer enclosure

Check it out.. $370 JUST for that enclosure,.. I'm obviously NOT buying that. Be nice if I could build something like that myself,.. but that's less woodworking and more molding. So again, I think the most ideal place that would fit in my budget is going to be a sub in the slot behind the driver seat. That slot is going to need work to build it up for whatever sub is put in it.. unless I do like a few have done and put an 8" sub ALREADY in a box that fits in that space and just seal it. Though just throwing a boxed 8 in a slot like that then putting a plastic cover over it seems like it'd sound pretty bad. So, somehow mounting an 8" JL sub in that factory slot (you can buy the factory housing and grill etc to make that slot behind my seat ready to put a sub in.. -- ) But since you aren't a sub guy, you probably can't help with that area of expertise. ?

75 watts is decent.

But in order to have clear sound that stays clear through all volume levels, you want to give your speakers some headroom.

And this is important.

Well.. I say 75watts.. cause that is what was used before.. a Kenwood 150watt amp.. 2x 75 watt RMS and they performed perfectly, no clipping etc. That's 5 more watts RMS than their rating. And, I'm not going to really be cranking this stereo.. a moderate volume level, but not levels that damage hearing over long periods of time Like I did with my system years ago.

Problem with using a single 4 channel and bridging 2 channels to the subs is most of the time you bridge at 2 ohms (most amps are only stable at 4ohms bridged). Now if you bridge a single 4 ohm sub, the load stays at 4 ohms, the amp is stable. But if you bridge 2 subs, the amp now sees 2 ohms bridged, it is unstable, and will not function properly, run hot, clip, probably damage.

So you either buy a single high wattage amp, or run 2 separate amps with ample power to each.

Hrmm.. so basically if I understand you properly -- If I ran TWO subs with a 4 channel amp.. running them off each channel or in parallel they'd run in 2ohm, and obviously not the rating for most subs. Now if I do what I'm going to do, and run just ONE sub + the Mids.. Does bridging 2 channels to one sub still push a 4ohm amp to 2ohm?

I'm only thinking of a single amp for ROOM of installation,.. and cost. But more for installation and room reasons. I'm sure I can find a Class D mono amp for a sub no problem and a 2 channel amp for the mids for about the same price as a 4 channel amp with enough watts to run all 3 speakers.

If I buy a separate set of tweeters that changes the amp situation yet again. If I did go with another set of tweeters,.. What kind of wattage do the mid range tweeters I'd put in the A-piller area use RMS? I know it varies.. but for something in the oh $50-100 range I guess.

With the install.. Whether I do it, or I get an installer to do it.. It'd probably be wise to get them to run wires to the mids behind the seat, but just NOT hook them up. So if in the future I wanted to add something there... I wouldn't have to tear the car apart to run them. I could pop them in, and just hook the existing run wires to an amp.

And with amps.. how much headroom do I need? When I ran those JL 12's .. they were rated at 125-150watts RMS, and I ran 100watts RMS to them and they didn't clip and were insane. The mids obviously got 75 watts RMS when they were rated at 70watts RMS. I always thought you ran the RMS rating and you were good. I'm seeing subs being able to run say 50-75% of their RMS rating and work well. At the JL 8" sub level.. we're talking 50-125watts MAX RMS.

I just installed a new battery in this 350z today.. and wow this car is wired tight.. I bet installation in this car is NOT the easiest to install a system in.

You live in Alabama, maybe you'd want a side job for some cash //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Thanks

 

[Chromatic]

Just wanted to post this - An very reasonable option to a trunk space "saving" option, that should be relatively easy to install to:

350Z Subwoofer Enclosure Sub Box 1 10" Corner Mount | eBay

Now.. to find a sub that works with the cubic feet of this design.. hrmm.

 

[calebkhill 10+ year member]

No I'm not deadset on eliminating tweeters -- Obviously my MB Quarts I have .. HAVE nice tweeters built into them.. it's just the location of them that is probably what your most concerned about (being down low in the doors).

If I bought a set of tweeters just to pair them with the MBquarts I have.. which isn't a bad idea -- would I NOT run the tweeter on the MB quarts in the door, and just run the set of tweeters placed up high? Or would it still be beneficial to run BOTH the component (high placement) tweeters AND the tweeters on the MB quart mids that are built over top as coaxials? Interesting thought, idea.. No idea how that would work.

Well, yes. the location is what I'm most concerned about. If you had tweets up front, but t wanted to keep the c set, then I'd cross the coax higher at about 10khz, to allow the coax to play the majority of the spectrum, and using the up front tweets just fur staging, imaging, envelope purposes.

I'm telling you these MB Quarts (if they sound like they used to) -- are quite impressive. I had two 12" JL's that won minor awards in minor competitions.. and it was primarily due to the accoustics of the car (which is VERY similar to the 350z) -- Those subs were in a 300ZX hatchback.. this is a 350Z hatchback.. the cars are shaped very similarly.. Point is these MB Quarts in the doors SCREAMED with no distortion at ridiculous volume levels.. To keep up with the bass produced in that system I had years ago.. it was actually quite remarkable what that setup did.

i believe you

Yup, I'm familiar with the concept -- Never built a box.. but I know subs are rated for X cubic feet of space non ported,.. and a different rating if ported, etc. I'd probably match sub to Box rather than vice versa -- Sounds weird, but money wise.. the enclosures for even ONE sub,.. is WAY more expensive than even a mid-high end sub. (And I'm not doing more than one sub.. I don't want car rattling bass.. I want that clean punch.. that's all.) Which is why doing something in the factory location behind my passenger seat would be super ideal.. cause I don't want to take up room in the trunk,.. and a rear facing sub is going to push out insane bass in that car because of the shape.. It would be rear facing on a hatchback,.. and I know it'd be like the 300ZX .. I'd get A LOT more out of a W1 JL with even 100-150watts on it than some get with 500+watts and better subs. Sounds odd, but the car and where the sub is placed makes a HUGE difference.

Subs with less airspace,.. behind a seat, etc.. Are going to be weaker, by nature.. and for my purpose that's really a "Preferred" thing as odd as that sounds. Which is why something like an 8" JL Audio sub with 75-100 watts RMS would be ALL I wanted .. mounted behind the seat, or in an enclosure in the corner like that one picture I linked of the Wicked Cas enclosure:

Wicked C.A.S.*::*MAGIC BOXES*::*Nissan*::*Nissan 350Z Corner 1x10 Enclosure Sub box Subwoofer enclosure

Check it out.. $370 JUST for that enclosure,.. I'm obviously NOT buying that. Be nice if I could build something like that myself,.. but that's less woodworking and more molding. So again, I think the most ideal place that would fit in my budget is going to be a sub in the slot behind the driver seat. That slot is going to need work to build it up for whatever sub is put in it.. unless I do like a few have done and put an 8" sub ALREADY in a box that fits in that space and just seal it. Though just throwing a boxed 8 in a slot like that then putting a plastic cover over it seems like it'd sound pretty bad. So, somehow mounting an 8" JL sub in that factory slot (you can buy the factory housing and grill etc to make that slot behind my seat ready to put a sub in.. -- ) But since you aren't a sub guy, you probably can't help with that area of expertise. ?

Right, I'm no expert, but it is a basic concept. I'd try my best to make sure the sub matches the enclosure.

Well.. I say 75watts.. cause that is what was used before.. a Kenwood 150watt amp.. 2x 75 watt RMS and they performed perfectly, no clipping etc. That's 5 more watts RMS than their rating. And, I'm not going to really be cranking this stereo.. a moderate volume level, but not levels that damage hearing over long periods of time Like I did with my system years ago.

At moderate volume levels, 75 watts s be enough.

Hrmm.. so basically if I understand you properly -- If I ran TWO subs with a 4 channel amp.. running them off each channel or in parallel they'd run in 2ohm, and obviously not the rating for most subs. Now if I do what I'm going to do, and run just ONE sub + the Mids.. Does bridging 2 channels to one sub still push a 4ohm amp to 2ohm?

I'm only thinking of a single amp for ROOM of installation,.. and cost. But more for installation and room reasons. I'm sure I can find a Class D mono amp for a sub no problem and a 2 channel amp for the mids for about the same price as a 4 channel amp with enough watts to run all 3 speakers.

If I buy a separate set of tweeters that changes the amp situation yet again. If I did go with another set of tweeters,.. What kind of wattage do the mid range tweeters I'd put in the A-piller area use RMS? I know it varies.. but for something in the oh $50-100 range I guess.

A single sub on each channel, each channel will see 4 ohms.

A single sub bridged, the amp will see 4 ohms bridged.

2 subs bridged , the amp will see 4 ohms.

It also depends if the sub is svc or dvc, and how you wire then...

And with amps.. how much headroom do I need? When I ran those JL 12's .. they were rated at 125-150watts RMS, and I ran 100watts RMS to them and they didn't clip and were insane. The mids obviously got 75 watts RMS when they were rated at 70watts RMS. I always thought you ran the RMS rating and you were good. I'm seeing subs being able to run say 50-75% of their RMS rating and work well. At the JL 8" sub level.. we're talking 50-125watts MAX RMS.

however much headroom you can afford, the better.

You live in Alabama, maybe you'd want a side job for some cash //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Thanks

Maybe we could work something out

Sorry for fthe quick responses, phone is stupid right now