Current events discussion

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Was it fakery when mfg jobs declined under Trump? Weren't they supposed to skyrocket from the tariffs?

"U.S. total annual imports increased 12% under Trump as opposed to 32% under Biden. But at the same time, the US’s total annual exports grew by less than 4% between 2016 and 2020 while increasing 41% from 2020 to 2023."

All lies just to make Trump look bad, and no one in the GOP can see the the lies?

Manufacturing jobs increased under Trump, unless you're disingenuous and going to count the job losses from Covid against Trump.

Again you/they are being disingenuous. One, they're counting the decline in exports due to Covid against Trump. Exports from 2016-2019 were up 13%. The huge spike in Biden's exports is due to bouncing out of Covid. Exports from 2021-2023 were up ~15%; given that it looks like exports will be down from 2023 to 2024, Trump and Biden tied in this category. FYI, imports were down 6% in 2023 and looks like they'll be down another 5% in 2024. I wonder if that has anything to do with those Trump tariffs and Biden's willingness to stick with them?

You should know better than to trust media sources that have proven time and time again that they are willing to twist, distort, mislead and outright lie to fit the narrative. Don't believe the narrative, believe the facts. You have to double check everything that comes out of the media propaganda machine. Unless you just want to believe what you want to believe. In that case just go with the narrative.

Goods imported and exported tables from census.gov

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/historical/SAIMP.pdf

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/historical/SAEXP.pdf

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

The only way it's not a slaughter is if you go by popular vote...and if you're using that as your criteria then you either delusional on how we elect presidents or in denial...

Inflation is the devaluation of the dollar...a loss of buying power in simple terms. What world do you live in to think that's growth?

Actually, I agree with Rob. Inflation = growth and growth = inflation. Simply by printing more dollars GDP will grow. Trump is the first POTUS since Bush.V1 to be willing to look at other ways to grow the economy. Imagine that, a POTUS who thinks there are ways to create jobs other than print money and cut taxes. Ironically, even after the growth in manufacturing jobs after Trump's tariffs, some people are still in denial. The FRED chart is a little better than the BLS chart since they indicate Covid on the chart.

I don't know if Biden or somebody on his team thought/realized Trump's tariffs were effective, but the Biden administration pushed for tariffs as well. Give Sleepy Joe some credit, manufacturing jobs are up ~150k jobs under his watch. That's only ~1/2 of what occurred under Trump, but I'll give Biden a Covid pass. At the same time one must laugh at the fact that despite increasing tariffs, Joe wants Trump to "rethink" his tariffs. I'll give Sleepy Joe a pass on this one, afterall the dude is clearly suffering from dementia.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/13/politics/china-tariffs-biden-trump/index.html

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5014253-biden-trump-tariffs-canada-mexico/

All Employees, Manufacturing

Graph and download economic data for All Employees, Manufacturing (MANEMP) from Jan 1939 to Oct 2024 about headline figure, establishment survey, manufacturing, employment, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

US manufacturing jobs:

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Actually, I agree with Rob. Inflation = growth and growth = inflation

Low levels of inflation can be be good for an economy that's in good shape...high inflation is bad and Dan set off a recession...inflation isn't growth usually it's an indicator something is wrong

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I'm working off the dictionary definition of slavery. You're definition of slavery requires that I accept something for truth that isn't necessarily true.

Just sharing the idea with you, I don't control your eyes or mind

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Looks like Trump is already working towards correcting U.S. energy. He wants to declare, in Jan, an "Energy Emergency". He would like to increases oil drilling offshore and on federal land as well as more exports of natural gas. The threat of a 25% tariff was enough to have Trudeau meet with Trump at Mar-A-Lago Friday. Picking Chris Wright as energy secretary certainly can't hurt America. He is an intelligent man.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

They'll do this world wide:

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Looks like Trump is already working towards correcting U.S. energy. He wants to declare, in Jan, an "Energy Emergency". He would like to increases oil drilling offshore and on federal land as well as more exports of natural gas. The threat of a 25% tariff was enough to have Trudeau meet with Trump at Mar-A-Lago Friday. Picking Chris Wright as energy secretary certainly can't hurt America. He is an intelligent man.

All those things are bad because of R after Trump's name

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

All those things are bad because of R after Trump's name

I am genuinely curious to see if oil drilling increases under Trump. After all, Biden "approved" more permits. I am curious if there might just be a difference.

 

[Eggs 5,000+ posts]

How many watch this Hollywood show about oil industry?

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Looks like Trump is already working towards correcting U.S. energy. He wants to declare, in Jan, an "Energy Emergency". He would like to increases oil drilling offshore and on federal land as well as more exports of natural gas. The threat of a 25% tariff was enough to have Trudeau meet with Trump at Mar-A-Lago Friday. Picking Chris Wright as energy secretary certainly can't hurt America. He is an intelligent man.

Last time, the threat was enough for Canada to counter our 10% tariff with a 25% retaliatory tariff, and Trump backed down.
I wonder if Trudeau wants to meet with Trump to give him advance warning that doing the same thing and expecting different results is the "definition of insanity".

"...Trump announced the tariffs on May 31, 2018.
Canada announced its own retaliatory tariffs on roughly $16.6 billion worth of steel, aluminum and hundreds of other products from the U.S., which also included things like maple syrup, shaving products, ketchup and even coffee."
"By October 2018, a new NAFTA had been negotiated, the Canada-U.S.-Mexico-Agreement (CUSMA) — which the U.S. refers to as the USMCA — but it still took until May 2019 for an agreement to be reached to lift the tariffs on both sides."
"Trump then imposed another 10-per cent tariff on aluminum products from Canada in August 2020, only to back down a month later before Canada implemented their own retaliatory tariffs."

"On March 1, 2018, the United States announced its intent to impose import tariffs of 25% on Canadian steel products and 10% on Canadian aluminum products; these tariffs came into force on June 1. In response, on May 31, Canada announced its intent to impose retaliatory tariffs of 25% on imports of US steel products and 10% on imports of US aluminum products and various other products; these tariffs were implemented on July 1. Both governments lifted their respective tariffs on May 20, 2019. The impact of these tariffs on Canada's exports and imports was noteworthy and varied by product group."

In 2018, Canada's exports of goods increased 6.5% to $585.2 billion, outpacing imports, which rose 5.8% to $607.2 billion.

Fast-forward to the present day:
"Canada is considering retaliatory measures against the United States, a government source said Friday, as the country was urged to take seriously Donald Trump's threats to impose tariffs on Canadian imports.
A senior official, speaking on background, told AFP the government is preparing for all eventualities, including possible retaliatory tariffs."

It's deja vu, all over again.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Last time, the threat was enough for Canada to counter our 10% tariff with a 25% retaliatory tariff, and Trump backed down.
I wonder if Trudeau wants to meet with Trump to give him advance warning that doing the same thing and expecting different results is the "definition of insanity".

"...Trump announced the tariffs on May 31, 2018.
Canada announced its own retaliatory tariffs on roughly $16.6 billion worth of steel, aluminum and hundreds of other products from the U.S., which also included things like maple syrup, shaving products, ketchup and even coffee."
"By October 2018, a new NAFTA had been negotiated, the Canada-U.S.-Mexico-Agreement (CUSMA) — which the U.S. refers to as the USMCA — but it still took until May 2019 for an agreement to be reached to lift the tariffs on both sides."
"Trump then imposed another 10-per cent tariff on aluminum products from Canada in August 2020, only to back down a month later before Canada implemented their own retaliatory tariffs."

"On March 1, 2018, the United States announced its intent to impose import tariffs of 25% on Canadian steel products and 10% on Canadian aluminum products; these tariffs came into force on June 1. In response, on May 31, Canada announced its intent to impose retaliatory tariffs of 25% on imports of US steel products and 10% on imports of US aluminum products and various other products; these tariffs were implemented on July 1. Both governments lifted their respective tariffs on May 20, 2019. The impact of these tariffs on Canada's exports and imports was noteworthy and varied by product group."

In 2018, Canada's exports of goods increased 6.5% to $585.2 billion, outpacing imports, which rose 5.8% to $607.2 billion.

Fast-forward to the present day:
"Canada is considering retaliatory measures against the United States, a government source said Friday, as the country was urged to take seriously Donald Trump's threats to impose tariffs on Canadian imports.
A senior official, speaking on background, told AFP the government is preparing for all eventualities, including possible retaliatory tariffs."

It's deja vu, all over again.

Yeah well this isn't 2018. You can live in the past if you like afraid of what the future brings but we are moving forward. I'm not to worried about what the current democratic government has to say on its way out. I will look forward to what is going to happen after Jan. 20th.

When leaders of other countries point out what Biden is doing before he leaves the white house it makes it even more clear how biased you lefties are. The whole world can see what the Biden administration is doing except you lefties. Why is that?

I bet you gas prices come down in the U.S. to the mid $2 range or less depending on area.
I bet you groceries come down as a result of lower fuel prices in ALL AREAS.
I bet you lumber comes down when Canada does what is ask of them causing construction cost to come down.
I bet you the SPR rebounds greatly.

Terms of the bet?
I win - You admit Trump did a good job and that you judged him to harshly.
You win - I vote Democrat in the next election.
Deal?

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Low levels of inflation can be be good for an economy that's in good shape...high inflation is bad and Dan set off a recession...inflation isn't growth usually it's an indicator something is wrong

Inflation is growth. The Fed certainly tries to manage it, but they also want it inflation to occur because inflation drives growth, large purchases, capital investment, etc.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

The Relationship Between Inflation and Economic Growth

We discuss the various aspects of inflation: causes, role in economics boom and bursts, impact on currency and long tern effects.

www.economicsonline.co.uk

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Just sharing the idea with you, I don't control your eyes or mind

Fine, but basically it's just doing what the woke LGBTQxyz crowd does and attempts to redefine words to suit their narrative.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Manufacturing jobs increased under Trump, unless you're disingenuous and going to count the job losses from Covid against Trump.

View attachment 61634

Nope. I very clearly stated that mfg jobs increases under Trump, but then began to decline in the first quarter of 2019, before COVID was even a thought. If they continued the decline at the same pace, it woulkd have erased about 50% of the original gains.
Cut COVID out of the equation, and there was not only growth under Biden, but it hit levels higher than the peak under Trump, and had a higher growth rate.

Again you/they are being disingenuous. One, they're counting the decline in exports due to Covid against Trump. Exports from 2016-2019 were up 13%. The huge spike in Biden's exports is due to bouncing out of Covid. Exports from 2021-2023 were up ~15%; given that it looks like exports will be down from 2023 to 2024, Trump and Biden tied in this category. FYI, imports were down 6% in 2023 and looks like they'll be down another 5% in 2024. I wonder if that has anything to do with those Trump tariffs and Biden's willingness to stick with them?

Not disingenuous at all. Exports saw a .01% growth in 2019 over 2018. That had nothing to do with COVID, which hit in Feb 2020.
If you take out the COVID "valley", there was growth under Trump, but it exploded under Biden, in comparison.
2017-2018 saw 6% export growth.
2018-2019 saw .01% growth.
Kill the COVID valley and resume in 2021 where it tanked.
2021-2022 saw 17% growth
2022-2023 saw 1.1% growth
2024 *estimate 32% growth
2024 is not over, but even if Oct, Nov, Dec each only hit the LOWEST month we've had, it will put us at a 32% growth over 2023
-

This is data from the the World Bank and US Census Bureau.
I'm thinking they aren't making these numbers up just to make Biden look good/Trump look bad.

You should know better than to trust media sources that have proven time and time again that they are willing to twist, distort, mislead and outright lie to fit the narrative. Don't believe the narrative, believe the facts. You have to double check everything that comes out of the media propaganda machine. Unless you just want to believe what you want to believe. In that case just go with the narrative.

I don't get my info from media sources. All of the economic data I share comes from verifiable sources, like the one above. More often than not, it's direct from the sources like Bureau of Labor Statistics, DJIA, NASDAQ, census.gov (like you did), etc.

Other people here choose to argue with data from memes that they haven't fact-checked, or claims they heard other people make (also not fact-checked).

I've been accused dozens of times for being a "liar" when I share data, and have challenged people dozens of times to show where I "lied", but not a single person has met the challenge.
This is a wholly anonymous forum, except for when people like Thxone try to dox (doxx?) me. I can, but I don't sling bullshit here.
Unlike others I don't see a benefit in it, despite the anonymity.

Goods imported and exported tables from census.gov

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/historical/SAIMP.pdf

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/historical/SAEXP.pdf

I tried these, but they just take me to the page where I can research all data points, build my own charts and spreadsheets, etc.
Can you screensnip the data from your pdf and share it? Otherwise, I don't know what you were wanting to show here.