Rant "...die for your country at 18..." STFU

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Another one who fought for my freedom and took an oath to support and defend a document they never read.
It says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." not "the right of the standing army to bear arms". In what world would a bunch of people who just took up arms against the standing army of a tyrannical government think that it was super important to enshrine into law a """right""" for only the standing army to be armed?

I have read it. I notice you only quoted that which suited you case. In what world would a bunch of people who just over threw their gov't enshrine a law for only the army to be armed??? That world would be called planet earth. You may not have noticed, but just about every other nation on this planet has ousted a tyrannical gov't at some point in time and they all restrict access to firearms.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I have read it. I notice you only quoted that which suited you case. In what world would a bunch of people who just over threw their gov't enshrine a law for only the army to be armed??? That world would be called planet earth. You may not have noticed, but just about every other nation on this planet has ousted a tyrannical gov't at some point in time and they all restrict access to firearms.

DO you really believe that a standing army and the militia are the same thing? If so, on what evidence? What part of the constitution or federalist papers, or any writings of any of the founders makes you believe they intended us to be serfs like literally every other place in the world?

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

The exemption is if some traitor wants to come try to disarm me I'll send them straight to Hell or die trying.

OK, mister Internet Badass. Do you also wear 511 clothes and GI boots every day? Now I understand why you resent the armed forces. I'm sorry you weren't cut out for the military; you'll probably get better training on youtube anyway.

Every man who signs up for selective service does this.

You are not serious if you think filling out an internet form is the same as enlisting in the military. Selective service is a relic. We haven't needed a draft since the 60's. There are enough people that are brave and qualified enough to enlist that we don't have to rely on anyone with a pulse. You should probably thank them for doing the job you're incapable of doing.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

DO you really believe that a standing army and the militia are the same thing? If so, on what evidence? What part of the constitution or federalist papers, or any writings of any of the founders makes you believe they intended us to be serfs like literally every other place in the world?

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LOL - you're a riot. We're not serfs in the US, just the rest the world. I suppose you want to credit gun ownership with our lack of "serfdom."

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

OK, mister Internet Badass. Do you also wear 511 clothes and GI boots every day? Now I understand why you resent the armed forces. I'm sorry you weren't cut out for the military; you'll probably get better training on youtube anyway.


You are not serious if you think filling out an internet form is the same as enlisting in the military. Selective service is a relic. We haven't needed a draft since the 60's. There are enough people that are brave and qualified enough to enlist that we don't have to rely on anyone with a pulse. You should probably thank them for doing the job you're incapable of doing.

Youtube - school for the phony tough.

511 tactical gear and Grunt Style t-shirts - clothing for those that couldn't quiet make the cut, but play want to play citizen soldier anyway. But hey, if all hell breaks loose and ww3 somehow does happen there is the off chance all these wannabe citizen soldiers in their 511 tactical gear and Grunt Style t-shirts might get drafted and get to play soldier for reals. And then all that Youtube "virtual training" will really pay off.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Do you also wear 511 clothes and GI boots every day?

No, do you suppose that would help?

training

Implying operating a rifle is like operating a nuclear power plant or something? A pack of inbred goat herders managed to hold off the largest and most advanced army on Earth for 20 years, the shit isn't rocket surgery.

Selective service is a relic. We haven't needed a draft since the 60's.

And yet, by law, anybody who is of age could be called up at any time, handed a rifle and sent off to some meat grinder. As could any legislature call up the militia and mobilize every able bodied man over the age of 17 if needed. Furthermore, the mere existence of this is a deterrent to any who would invade "A rifle behind every blade of grass".

You should probably thank them for doing the job you're incapable of doing.

While I'm sure killing a few goat farmers on the other side of the planet is doing the world a net service, I don't see it really benefiting me personally. But again, if you can explain which freedom I have that has improved on account of any of this we can discuss what thanks is owed beyond my tax dollars paying the salaries, benefits, and pensions for which you agreed to do the job.

We're not serfs in the US, just the rest the world. I suppose you want to credit gun ownership with our lack of "serfdom."

Precisely. The absolute only reason we have as much freedom left as we do is because of how well armed the average citizen is which keeps the power of the state in check. This is spelled out many times by our founders and proven throughout history.

But hey, if all hell breaks loose and ww3 somehow does happen there is the off chance all these wannabe citizen soldiers in their 511 tactical gear and Grunt Style t-shirts might get drafted and get to play soldier for reals.

Did the VietCong need those things to defend their homeland from invasion? How about the Afghanis? Do you think if the Jews, Poles, and other "undesirables" in 1940s Germany had those things they'd have fared better when they were being herded up into cattle cars?

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Precisely. The absolute only reason we have as much freedom left as we do is because of how well armed the average citizen is which keeps the power of the state in check. This is spelled out many times by our founders and proven throughout history.

Not precisely. That was a typo on my part. Should have read "We're not serfs in the US, just the rest of the world??? Being well armed certainly has not ended "serfdom" in the US. Furthermore, it has not kept the power of the Corporatocracy in check.

Did the VietCong need those things to defend their homeland from invasion? How about the Afghanis? Do you think if the Jews, Poles, and other "undesirables" in 1940s Germany had those things they'd have fared better when they were being herded up into cattle cars?

The Polish army was certainly better much armed than the "undesirables," yet the outcome was the same. The VietCong and Afghanis "won" the war simply because we grew tired of killing of them. In both "wars" the casualty ratio was ~10:1 in favor of the US. In neither case did they win because of being well armed. Clearly the weren't well armed compared to the US army. They won because we lacked the resolve to do what was necessary to win those wars. Personally, I wouldn't even describe them as wars.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Being well armed certainly has not ended "serfdom" in the US.

Wow, even after all that training and fighting for our freedom you all did? Sorry you feel that way, but I think you'd be hard pressed to compare your situation to that of someone in China, North Korea, Cuba, or some narco-state in South America.

The VietCong and Afghanis "won" the war simply because we grew tired of killing of them. In both "wars" the casualty ratio was ~10:1 in favor of the US.

Too bad the point of any of that isn't just K ratio, but who is going to control that clay and the people therein.

The Polish army was certainly better much armed than the "undesirables," yet the outcome was the same.

So the Gestapo went door to door to the homes of Polish infantry and rounded them all up and put them on cattle cars? Or are you saying that at the end of the day, the standing army did absolutely ****-all and that those people who were herded off to camps might have done better if they'd have been armed and had opened fire when they heard the knock at the door?

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

Wow, even after all that training and fighting for our freedom you all did? Sorry you feel that way, but I think you'd be hard pressed to compare your situation to that of someone in China, North Korea, Cuba, or some narco-state in South America.

Too bad the point of any of that isn't just K ratio, but who is going to control that clay and the people therein.

So the Gestapo went door to door to the homes of Polish infantry and rounded them all up and put them on cattle cars? Or are you saying that at the end of the day, the standing army did absolutely ****-all and that those people who were herded off to camps might have done better if they'd have been armed and had opened fire when they heard the knock at the door?

You're obviously anti-military. Nobody can convince you to be grateful for those who protect you any more than you can convince patriots that servicemen hold no value.

I think I understand why you keep comparing military service to selective service: if we get desperate enough for bodies, that might be your only chance of wearing the uniform.

I'm sorry you couldn't make it in the service. Hopefully you can come to terms with it so you can stop being so bitter. I didn't personally deny you entry, so don't take it out on me.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Wow, even after all that training and fighting for our freedom you all did? Sorry you feel that way, but I think you'd be hard pressed to compare your situation to that of someone in China, North Korea, Cuba, or some narco-state in South America.

Hell, I have friends living in China that prefer their version of serfdom to ours. I guess it depends on what level of serfdom you can achieve.... I've traveled Europe, they have everything we have (and more in many cases) except for guns. BTW, guns are readily available in Mexico, South America and the African continent.

Too bad the point of any of that isn't just K ratio, but who is going to control that clay and the people therein.

I guess my point went right over your head. We didn't "lose the war," we just got sick of fighting. Hell we grew so sick of fighting it, that Trump arranged to have Taliban fighters released from prisons to fight it for us.

So the Gestapo went door to door to the homes of Polish infantry and rounded them all up and put them on cattle cars? Or are you saying that at the end of the day, the standing army did absolutely ****-all and that those people who were herded off to camps might have done better if they'd have been armed and had opened fire when they heard the knock at the door?

Of course not. Did the Polish army fare any better than the Poles rounded up in Germany?

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

You're obviously anti-military. Nobody can convince you to be grateful for those who protect you any more than you can convince patriots that servicemen hold no value.

I think I understand why you keep comparing military service to selective service: if we get desperate enough for bodies, that might be your only chance of wearing the uniform.

I'm sorry you couldn't make it in the service. Hopefully you can come to terms with it so you can stop being so bitter. I didn't personally deny you entry, so don't take it out on me.

I think it's a cultural thing. Supporting the military became cool when we invaded Iraq (the second time). Then it wasn't cool enough to just support the military, so we had the proliferation of the counterfeit soldier. I have tactical gear, I have an AR, I claim to be defending the constitution - I'm just like the real deal. Personally, I'm pretty sick of these wannabes.

Of course these phony tough soldiers are welcome to saddle up and haul their ***** off to the Ukraine and put their youtube training to the test. I must admit I find it odd how many people couldn't serve because of flat feet, bad backs, etc, but somehow my flat @$$ feet and scoliosis didn't stop me.

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

I think it's a cultural thing. Supporting the military became cool when we invaded Iraq (the second time). Then it wasn't cool enough to just support the military, so we had the proliferation of the counterfeit soldier. I have tactical gear, I have an AR, I claim to be defending the constitution - I'm just like the real deal. Personally, I'm pretty sick of these wannabes.

Of course these phony tough soldiers are welcome to saddle up and haul their ***** off to the Ukraine and put their youtube training to the test. I must admit I find it odd how many people couldn't serve because of flat feet, bad backs, etc, but somehow my flat @$$ feet and scoliosis didn't stop me.

Military support became cool after 9/11. Just like anything though, once it stopped making headlines, many people assumed the fighting was over and terrorism declined on its own.

I also can't stand gun-nerds (Colion Noir comes to mind). Youtube creators realize they look more experienced and qualified by mimicking veterans, and the viewers buy into the gimmick and also play the part.

It's just like jeep guys: they're trying to fit an image to look cool to other wannabes. Tell me more about how you take your brand new rubicon wrangler offroad. You must be an expert because you call it a YJ instead of a wrangler. Gun nerds are exactly the same.

I'd take a decent paintballer on my side in a fight over someone who knows a bunch of technical info about a weapon or cartridge. Technical info is cool if you want to be an armorer or sound savvy on the internet, but it's mostly useless in a fight.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Just because somebody doesn't believe one class of citizen should have expanded access to clearly defined rights doesn't mean they sleep in tactical lingerie cuddling an AR every night...and thinking vets shouldn't have more access to firearms then everybody else also doesn't mean lack a of appreciation for service...

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

Just because somebody doesn't believe one class of citizen should have expanded access to clearly defined rights doesn't mean they sleep in tactical lingerie cuddling an AR every night...and thinking vets shouldn't have more access to firearms then everybody else also doesn't mean lack a of appreciation for service...

I agree with your direct point, but there's more to it than that. One class of citizen will always have expanded rights, so I see that argument as negligible. Some people can't afford guns, so they are restricted. You can buy a pre-1986 automatic rifle if you have enough money, but others are restricted. Some people have credentials to distribute automatic weapons, which creates a separate class. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't agree with any gun restrictions, but you can't say there is currently equal-access to weapons. I think familiarization/training on a weapon is a far better qualification than having more money. Your thoughts?

Tell me more about your position, and I'll gladly engage politely.

This thread has exposed several different mentalities:
I started the thread because I don't like people using the minimum age of deployment as an argument about age restrictions. Nobody has contested that point; instead, others have latched on to a sub note I made about qualifications. That's fine, but I would prefer people at least read the whole paragraph before saying "...SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED! ...MY RIGHTS!".

Hispls has taken an extreme position of being anti-military. He has implied that veterans shouldn't be appreciated because most wars don't directly impact his freedom, and that registering for selective service is the same as signing up for the military, which is how the conversation got to this point. Hispls is one of the few on this forum whose experience on audio topics I take a face-value, but he is wrong to think the military doesn't keep him safe.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Colion Noir is definitely a giant douche bag.

I agree with @metalheadjoe: our rights are restricted and infringed upon all the time. Personally, I'm for restricting gun sales, but the more "they" try to restrict gun sales, the more guns that get sold.