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Neo Ferrite Wini and other questions.

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Deon1818

Deon1818

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So. I'm considering going bigger on my daily.
I would need a H.O. and a bigger amp but I'll handle that.

My first question is does Neodymium have any direct advantages or disadvantages over Ferrite other than weight savings if magnet force is equal?

My second question is how much can I rely on WiniSD to give me the truth? Can it compare woofer output?

For the woofer in this build I'm considering an Fi neo3.5 or a sundown X v3. Both 12's
Sundown isn't the best at updating their site or listing parameters, but from what i gathered and inputed in Wini, the Fi beats the X in every situation I've put up. Not by much, but it still wins. I've tried bigger boxes, smaller boxes, more and less power. Is it possible the parameters are slightly off? I'm not super experienced with wini and usually just use it to see what size box and port to use. not to compare woofers.

My third question is direct to Fi. Is there a disadvantage to their cooling options. On the Neo subs it says

"Neo3.5:
Comparable to the older Q series drivers. Great SQ (especially with full cool/IND options. "

"New cooling and inductance features that are set up in stages. The first stage is a machined aluminum pole sleeve. This provides better heat wicking and is the first portion of inductance linearizing and reduction. The second stage is a combination of the pole sleeve and an amluminum domed compression cap. This increases the compression ratio for cooling as well as adds some outstroke inductance reduction. The third stage utilizes the pole sleeve, the compression cap, and a thick aluminum finned extrustion that again lowers and linearizes inductance as well as aids in thermal dissipation. With the third stage we have reduced inductance by almost a factor of 3 over utilizing none of the aluminum."

The price doesnt change if i select the cooling options. But I'm unsure how it would affect the paramters. Would you lose motor force? i thought with the older Ferrite structures they had to carve out the magent to make cooling channels. Is there any reason NOT to add full cooling options??
Click to read more...
 
Deon1818 said:
So. I'm considering going bigger on my daily.
I would need a H.O. and a bigger amp but I'll handle that.

My first question is does Neodymium have any direct advantages or disadvantages over Ferrite other than weight savings if magnet force is equal?

My second question is how much can I rely on WiniSD to give me the truth? Can it compare woofer output?

For the woofer in this build I'm considering an Fi neo3.5 or a sundown X v3. Both 12's
Sundown isn't the best at updating their site or listing parameters, but from what i gathered and inputed in Wini, the Fi beats the X in every situation I've put up. Not by much, but it still wins. I've tried bigger boxes, smaller boxes, more and less power. Is it possible the parameters are slightly off? I'm not super experienced with wini and usually just use it to see what size box and port to use. not to compare woofers.

My third question is direct to Fi. Is there a disadvantage to their cooling options. On the Neo subs it says

"Neo3.5:
Comparable to the older Q series drivers. Great SQ (especially with full cool/IND options. "

"New cooling and inductance features that are set up in stages. The first stage is a machined aluminum pole sleeve. This provides better heat wicking and is the first portion of inductance linearizing and reduction. The second stage is a combination of the pole sleeve and an amluminum domed compression cap. This increases the compression ratio for cooling as well as adds some outstroke inductance reduction. The third stage utilizes the pole sleeve, the compression cap, and a thick aluminum finned extrustion that again lowers and linearizes inductance as well as aids in thermal dissipation. With the third stage we have reduced inductance by almost a factor of 3 over utilizing none of the aluminum."

The price doesnt change if i select the cooling options. But I'm unsure how it would affect the paramters. Would you lose motor force? i thought with the older Ferrite structures they had to carve out the magent to make cooling channels. Is there any reason NOT to add full cooling options??
Click to expand...

programs aren’t gospel and real world testing is truly the only way to know. Don’t get too caught up with that stuff. As far as ferrite goes vs neo, there are pros and cons on both sides. I have yet to understand this neo craze with subwoofers. I see the only real point in using neo is due to weight and space. Yes it will take less neo to get the same amount of force as ferrite but the cost is much higher to use neo. The neo motors are also huge now which kind of makes the space argument pointless and they need to be due to cooling and clearance for xmax. Ferrite resists corrosion and heat better than neo but neo has greater force if the sizes are the same. Depending on grade, using a supplier I deal with, the cost is about 3x more to use neo vs Y35 ferrite. Then neo has to be coated. If the amount of neo being used works out to be the same to produce the exact force as ferrite there will be no difference in sound or output cause of the magnet used. The only difference really will be cost most likely and weight. As far as the cooling option from Fi goes that I can’t answer as id have to see what it exactly is to understand how it works.
 
djdilliodon! said:
programs aren’t gospel and real world testing is truly the only way to know. Don’t get too caught up with that stuff. As far as ferrite goes vs neo, there are pros and cons on both sides. I have yet to understand this neo craze with subwoofers. I see the only real point in using neo is due to weight and space. Yes it will take less neo to get the same amount of force as ferrite but the cost is much higher to use neo. The neo motors are also huge now which kind of makes the space argument pointless and they need to be due to cooling and clearance for xmax. Ferrite resists corrosion and heat better than neo but neo has greater force if the sizes are the same. Depending on grade, using a supplier I deal with, the cost is about 3x more to use neo vs Y35 ferrite. Then neo has to be coated. If the amount of neo being used works out to be the same to produce the exact force as ferrite there will be no difference in sound or output cause of the magnet used. The only difference really will be cost most likely and weight. As far as the cooling option from Fi goes that I can’t answer as id have to see what it exactly is to understand how it works.
Click to expand...
Okay I won't get caught up in Wini.
Thanks for the education on metals. That all makes sense. It's not that i want Neo, I just wanted a Fi Q but with all the changes Fi made in the last year or two it looks like the neo 3.5 is the closet thing. their HC is similar priced that's rated 750 watts higher...
I'm gonna keep diggin online about cooling options. This is another segment of their site under a ferrite sub. It reads the same but adds detail. reduced distortion and better cooling... There's gotta be a downside. right?

"Cooling Stage: The new cooling stages are aluminum rings or plugs that aid in cooling and reducing the inductance of a coil (as well as linearizing it to further reduce distortion). The first stage is a machined aluminum sleeve over the pole. This has better thermal conductivity than steel alone does and reduces the effect of the coils inductance increase being an iron core inductor. The second stage includes the first pole sleeve and adds an aluminum pole cap that increases compression and cooling. The third is the first two stages along with the large visible heatsink that surrounds the outside of the coil and transfers heat to the ambient environment as well as greatly reducing the inward inductance of the coil. The overall effect increases cooling/thermal capacity as well as linearizing in vs outward inductance shift reducing distortion ad increasing bandwidth"
 
Deon1818 said:
Okay I won't get caught up in Wini.
Thanks for the education on metals. That all makes sense. It's not that i want Neo, I just wanted a Fi Q but with all the changes Fi made in the last year or two it looks like the neo 3.5 is the closet thing. their HC is similar priced that's rated 750 watts higher...
I'm gonna keep diggin online about cooling options. This is another segment of their site under a ferrite sub. It reads the same but adds detail. reduced distortion and better cooling... There's gotta be a downside. right?

"Cooling Stage: The new cooling stages are aluminum rings or plugs that aid in cooling and reducing the inductance of a coil (as well as linearizing it to further reduce distortion). The first stage is a machined aluminum sleeve over the pole. This has better thermal conductivity than steel alone does and reduces the effect of the coils inductance increase being an iron core inductor. The second stage includes the first pole sleeve and adds an aluminum pole cap that increases compression and cooling. The third is the first two stages along with the large visible heatsink that surrounds the outside of the coil and transfers heat to the ambient environment as well as greatly reducing the inward inductance of the coil. The overall effect increases cooling/thermal capacity as well as linearizing in vs outward inductance shift reducing distortion ad increasing bandwidth"
Click to expand...

the pole piece needs to be magnetic. As a coil heats up, of course the surrounding areas will heat up as well and it’s no secret that aluminum is excellent at shedding heat quickly. The thing is, does using a sleeve over a pole piece going to really affect the coils temperature to a significant degree? Is that aluminum sleeve going to affect that pole pieces magnetic strength? I think temp wise it won’t make a significant difference. In order to make a big difference in cooling of the coil, whatever you do has to directly concentrate on the coil itself. Porting would make the biggest difference and in a way that directs as much air as possible over the coil. That’s what I’ve always concentrated on and it works perfectly fine.
 
djdilliodon! said:
the pole piece needs to be magnetic. As a coil heats up, of course the surrounding areas will heat up as well and it’s no secret that aluminum is excellent at shedding heat quickly. The thing is, does using a sleeve over a pole piece going to really affect the coils temperature to a significant degree? Is that aluminum sleeve going to affect that pole pieces magnetic strength? I think temp wise it won’t make a significant difference. In order to make a big difference in cooling of the coil, whatever you do has to directly concentrate on the coil itself. Porting would make the biggest difference and in a way that directs as much air as possible over the coil. That’s what I’ve always concentrated on and it works perfectly fine.
Click to expand...
very interesting thank you for the information
 
HondaCRV03 said:
They built and sent me my team subs in 3 weeks time but still won't respond to me asking for the specs. Sounds like we're in the same boat
Click to expand...

do they have a phone number to call? If not have a buddy send a question with interest in buying and see if they reply quick. If they do, well……
 
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