Official Trump Thread - Winners only

[SlugButter]

We are all out of touch. That’s how things got this way in the first place.

 

[Lasherž]

We are all out of touch. That’s how things got this way in the first place.

It'd be nice if people below the poverty line and people slightly above it saw that they have more similarities than either of them do to the top 1% who dictate the policies that screw them.

 

[SlugButter]

It'd be nice if people below the poverty line and people slightly above it saw that they have more similarities than either of them do to the top 1% who dictate the policies that screw them.

Agreed, but where we differ I think is economic policies themselves. There is no way to tax ourselves to prosperity. That’s a nonsense mantra pushed by politicians who know that taxes In our economy is a tax on the consumers/poor.

 

[SlugButter]

Businesses have to make a profit. High taxes are worked into all prices, that we all have to pay within the prices of everything we buy. We literally pay the 1% taxes for them, especially when they’ve shutdown the competition that actually keeps prices lower.

 

[SlugButter]

The government cannot “help” the poor. That’s a political statement to get votes from people who don’t actually know how it’s supposed to work.

 

[Lasherž]

Agreed, but where we differ I think is economic policies themselves. There is no way to tax ourselves to prosperity. That’s a nonsense mantra pushed by politicians who know that taxes In our economy is a tax on the consumers/poor.

Capitalism is great for intellectual progress. Late-stage capitalism isn't. Oligarchical capitalism where the rich control the policy decisions, whether literally or through their lawyers (lobbyists), is about where capitalism hurts more than it helps. Everything's a balance scale, extremes aren't good for anyone but I think we'd probably disagree with where those extreme points are. Still I think it's pretty clear the needle ain't in the middle right now for a balancing act.

 

[SlugButter]

If we are going to do what we are doing, we need to just go full socialist. In our system, high taxes hurts the poor. Our problem, in my opinion, is that we are trying to walk the middle of the road. We would be better off going full force one way or the other. Regulated capitalism works, and so can regulated socialism. Corruption and corporate power destroys both systems.

 

[Lasherž]

The government cannot “help” the poor. That’s a political statement to get votes from people who don’t actually know how it’s supposed to work.

It depends a lot on why they're poor. A lot of what the government can do is make their situation less likely to happen again (again, depending on why they're poor), and make the situation more tolerable via social programs. Helping the poor is incredibly simplistic phase for a difficult thing to target and do accurately, but it would naturally follow in our current system by funding things differently than we currently do. In that way you're right, one of the main ways to help the poor is to stop screwing them.

 

[SlugButter]

It depends a lot on why they're poor. A lot of what the government can do is make their situation less likely to happen again (again, depending on why they're poor), and make the situation more tolerable via social programs. Helping the poor is incredibly simplistic phase for a difficult thing to target and do accurately, but it would naturally follow in our current system by funding things differently than we currently do. In that way you're right, one of the main ways to help the poor is to stop screwing them.

Funding our war machine to the tune of half A trillion dollars per year is what destroyed capitalism. FDR called it. “Beware of the military industrial complex.”

 

[Lasherž]

If we are going to do what we are doing, we need to just go full socialist. In our system, high taxes hurts the poor. Our problem, in my opinion, is that we are trying to walk the middle of the road. We would be better off going full force one way or the other. Regulated capitalism works, and so can regulated socialism. Corruption and corporate power destroys both systems.

Full socialism implies an ownership of companies lying with the workers and a more representative democracy or direct democracy. I don't think America is educated enough to attempt that, but 50% ownership sounds completely reasonable as well as publicly funded campaigns and outlawing super pacs. The issue is that some of these things are constitutional issues about the freedom of speech and the supreme court has in not so few words said that money is speech.

 

[SlugButter]

Full socialism implies an ownership of companies lying with the workers and a more representative democracy or direct democracy. I don't think America is educated enough to attempt that, but 50% ownership sounds completely reasonable as well as publicly funded campaigns and outlawing super pacs. The issue is that some of these things are constitutional issues about the freedom of speech and the supreme court has in not so few words said that money is speech.

Economic freedom is what gets taken first to control any society. It’s the first step to any dictatorship. Freedom of speech is the second step. We are on our way to the second step as we speak.

 

[Lasherž]

Economic freedom is what gets taken first to control any society. It’s the first step to any dictatorship. Freedom of speech is the second step. We are on our way to the second step as we speak.

Indeed, I wish more libertarians would try and understand that it doesn't matter what forces take that freedom from you, the net result is the same. Having nothing is having nothing whether it's because a few people bought everything or because a few people stole everything.

America especially really blurs the lines between them. Once you're rich enough to buy real influence that influence makes/saves you more money than it costs. At that point it's a business expense. Is what they get from their bribes not stolen from us?

 

[Firewalker]

You want screwed up? Try living in a state with a Minimum Markup Law on all products. Our gasoline is anywhere from 20-40 cents higher because of this archaic law. It was thrown out of court but of course the businesses appealed to our heavily Conservative Supreme Court and allowed it to be active again. So give you an example...All those Black Friday deals you can buy in person. Well if the store advertises it for $99 it has to meet a certain minimum here over what cost is. It is a complete joke and it is on every product in the state.

 

[SlugButter]

What state is this?

 

[Firewalker]

Wisconsin, it is grandfathered in somehow. Apparently we are not the only state that has this IIRC.