Wiring up a relay for multiple amps & fans.

[HardofWhoring]

My first thread here, and just signed up. I have spent some time searching the interenet, youtube, and found here. Got a couple hours in, and thought its time to ask, hoping for some help. (question is the last paragraph).

I had my stereo system installed by a shop a couple years ago, and keep discovering problems that if I knew I could, I would probably sue them to get more than refund.

They GLUED in the tweeters from my component speakers.

They cut the butt connectors off the tweeter wires so they could use caps.

They GLUED the bass knob on the dash.

They capped together three pieces of wires for my subwoofers for a 6ft length of wire.

They drilled screws through the back of the cab to mount the subwoofer boxes

They used two tiny self tapping screws, through the lug and not the lug hole to individually mount each amplifier (I have a problem thinking these self-tapping screws are big enough to ground well).

They didn't mount the amplifier or the distribution block

They mounted the crossovers in the door, (and now they have rust on the screw terminals).

They drilled holes through the cover of the crossover instead of taking 2 seconds to open them and using the mounting holes that are built in, (then covered the hole in the cover with electrical tape).

They daisy chained the remote wires on the two amps.

I didn't discover these all right away, and there were probably a few more that I am forgetting. I am trying to not only fix it all, but add a third amp, with a better than factory pair of rear channel speakers, bi-amp my components, added a larger alternator, have a fan to add, improve and solder all connections, adding frequency filters, and going to add a new headunit to run 3 RCA outputs, (components, rears, and subs). This has been a lot of money spent, and a lot to learn so far FOR ME.

Don't think I need to get into details about the pieces I have, and think I have most everything down. I read my HU says to add no more than .4a to the remote wire, and am certain everything I want to run will be more than that. I am not sure what my amps are, but I am going to run a relay, and not sure if the "relay wiring" is correct.

I am going to run an SPDT relay, but have never used one before, and all the videos and info make it seem easy. The remote turn on lead is easy (16awg wire back to the HU). I was going to run the 87 tab with 12awg wire to a 5 post busbar, and run each remote wire off a separate post with ring terminals and 16awg. The fan to a separate post, and ground the fan and relay with separate wires and ring terminals on to a factory bolt ground under the seat. Last, is the 12 volts. I will have both (fused 3 way power, and non fused 3 way ground) distribution blocks with a couple feet. If so far this sounds like a good way of doing it, I am really uncertain what would be the best way for me to run post 30 to 12 volts. I am not sure if I would try to run that all the way back under the hood and run that to the power post at the fuse block. If I should just use a ring terminal and add it over one of the MANL fuses at the distribution block, If I should use an add a circuit to the panel under the dash and run a new 16 awg wire back to the relay... ????? Is there any reason I should or shouldn't do it any of these ways, or is there some really common thing people do that I should have found the answer to by now? Thank you or any help.

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[Incrimin18s]

For alot of guys here, youre gonna have to shorten up the questions and ask one thing at a time... Thats alot going on with your setup and lots of info, which is great, but Ive found most people dont have the patience to read.

I'm a bit confused on what youre wanting to do, I get your trying to keep the voltage low through those remote wires, but I myself have never wired more than two amps, so I cant give you a definite answer on that, but i know guys on here have done this. Try a search on daisy chaining remote wires or to that effect. Within the posts you should find some help. If not, make a new post specifically about that and you should get some replies quicker. Welcome to CA and I hope you get this mess figured out man, thats a bummer what that shop did. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 

[Incrimin18s]

Okay, I did a search for you.. Type this in the search bar of the CA site here : amp remote and fan relay

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/general-discussion/625047-i-need-relay.html

 

[HardofWhoring]

1st. I put all that information in here to try to show that I'm not just coming in here saying "how do I wire amps", like a lot of the other threads seemed to.

2nd. I think that was too much for you to read, I even made it so you could have read the first 3 sentences then the last paragraph, I don't think YOU "had enough patience to read", or you would have read that I was not happy with daisy-chaining the amps.

3rd. I did search. I have spent many hours searching this. Even on this site; from a LOT of threads telling people to just fuse it, to someone saying to run the remote wire off a capacitor, and far too many people feel they should just tell someone to use electrical tape, then wrap it in duct tape....... What I am trying to get is a more detailed explanation on trying to wire a relay.

4th. your link: Relay, fuse..... REALLY???

This is how internet forums work when people want help: The same question is asked 10 times a day. One out of ten times its a new way to ask it or needs information beyond the standard 2 sentence answer. That one thread may get 10 responses. Out of those 10 responses, 6 are inside jokes, 8 are people who don't know what the are talking about (some people do both), and maybe 2 people can add something helpful.

Got back to searching some more:

What seemed to be a consensus of some of those who seem to know what they are talking about was to ground all the connections together. I wasn't going to make a new ground, just use the factory ground for the two smaller connections to keep the "lower voltages" together to keep less of a chance of a short, (but really not sure if that even makes sense).

I am not opposed to running a new wire from the fuse panel, but is that overkill? My other thought would be to run it off the Fused distribution power block, but if I do that it would be under the screw on the down side from the MANL fuse. Thinking it would be better to run a lone wire from the fuse panel and fuse it near the panel.

I Will add a 2.5amp fuse between the relay and the busbar, (5 amp if that is too small, but I don't think it is). Just read, that I might want to add fuses after busbar on the individual remote and fan wires, but that seems overkill to me.

Not sure if I need to be running resistors or diodes in any way.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

This really is one of those things that is super simple so don't make your life any harder than necessary by overthinking it. You've already made it hard by coming here and asking such a simple question and getting a little tesy with someone who was actually being pretty kind. If you want to be part of this community, you shoud expect just a little grief now and then.

You will not need resistors or diodes. You are simply running a line from the battery to the trunk to feed the remote trigger on everything except the head unit. Not to be confused with the main power wire running from the battery to feed the power supply of the amplifier. You will be interupting that new remote line with a relay that is triggered by the remote from your head unit. When the head unit triggers the relay, that completes the continuity of the remote line you ran from the battery. You will fuse that line simply for fire safety, something in the area of 5-15amp unless for some strang reason you have an enormous amperage draw on your remote trigger line but that would be a lot of equipment turning on at once. Start with the low value and if it blows, go to a higher value until it doesn't blow. The fuse is just there in case that wire gets pinched or shorted, not so much to address sustained current draw beyond the turn-on sequence.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

A relay requires a source to pull in the coil and has normally open or normally closed contacts.

You want to power the coil through a switch (ignition) then run a dedicated power source to power the external amps through the normally open set of contacts.

It's that easy.

https://www.the12volt.com/relays/relays.asp

 

[HardofWhoring]

Yeah a little bit, been a long weekend, and no sleep last night. I didn't need to get testy with them, but still didn't seem like they put any effort into there response. It is what it is I guess. I do try to help on the other forums I am part of when I can. There is no reason this should be different. You're right though, not a good way to start out here.

Really does seem simple enough, and you definitely did make it sound like I am over complicating it. No should be normal amperage draw, but trying to plan for down the road possibilities too. I have a reg cab truck so this should be plenty unless I add an in dash equalizer or a second fan, maybe another set of tweeters, but I do plan on having a finished goal, and want to get there soon. Thank you.

I know the wire should be wired up by the schematic, but I think my problem is not understanding how the current draw works. If I use a 16 awg wire for power and ground, or a 1/0 awg wire for power and ground for a relay, is there any difference on the relay? The amount of current would still be dependant on how much the relay "takes"??? If that's true, then I would just need "sufficient wire" to handle the amperage of the current draw for the distance??? And a dedicated line running from the fuse panel would be best but really only for isolating any potential problems???

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Yeah a little bit, been a long weekend, and no sleep last night. I didn't need to get testy with them, but still didn't seem like they put any effort into there response. It is what it is I guess. I do try to help on the other forums I am part of when I can. There is no reason this should be different. You're right though, not a good way to start out here.

Really does seem simple enough, and you definitely did make it sound like I am over complicating it. No should be normal amperage draw, but trying to plan for down the road possibilities too. I have a reg cab truck so this should be plenty unless I add an in dash equalizer or a second fan, maybe another set of tweeters, but I do plan on having a finished goal, and want to get there soon. Thank you.

I know the wire should be wired up by the schematic, but I think my problem is not understanding how the current draw works. If I use a 16 awg wire for power and ground, or a 1/0 awg wire for power and ground for a relay, is there any difference on the relay? The amount of current would still be dependant on how much the relay "takes"??? If that's true, then I would just need "sufficient wire" to handle the amperage of the current draw for the distance??? And a dedicated line running from the fuse panel would be best but really only for isolating any potential problems???

I relay is a switch. The relay can only handle so much and having on common in DC you must make sure that the common can handle the sum of all the devices combined.

The relay coil is a low current coil that needs no more than a 16ga wire. Depending on what you want to power the relay may not have the current Carrying cability. But if your running 3 amps and a fan I'd isolate the fan with a separate relay.

The "switched" side of the relay is the contacts that are open or closed and are responsible for passing the larger current. You must use the app ornate wire size for the load.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

Yeah a little bit, been a long weekend, and no sleep last night. I didn't need to get testy with them, but still didn't seem like they put any effort into there response. It is what it is I guess. I do try to help on the other forums I am part of when I can. There is no reason this should be different. You're right though, not a good way to start out here.

Really does seem simple enough, and you definitely did make it sound like I am over complicating it. No should be normal amperage draw, but trying to plan for down the road possibilities too. I have a reg cab truck so this should be plenty unless I add an in dash equalizer or a second fan, maybe another set of tweeters, but I do plan on having a finished goal, and want to get there soon. Thank you.

I know the wire should be wired up by the schematic, but I think my problem is not understanding how the current draw works. If I use a 16 awg wire for power and ground, or a 1/0 awg wire for power and ground for a relay, is there any difference on the relay? The amount of current would still be dependant on how much the relay "takes"??? If that's true, then I would just need "sufficient wire" to handle the amperage of the current draw for the distance??? And a dedicated line running from the fuse panel would be best but really only for isolating any potential problems???

Right, no matter the awg of wire, just buy a relay that is rated for the job. In this case, the standard Bosch relay will do. And as papermaker stated, you can opt not to use the head unit as a trigger, instead going with the ignition as a trigger. It's all the same. I just prefer to use my head unit as a trigger.

 

[HardofWhoring]

The fan is rated .26a. I couldn't find the remote amperage draw for any of the amps on the website, but assumed that around that or a little more would be good. Guessing for the 3 amps and 1 fan was 1.5-2 amps. Wanted to leave a little extra room to make any future add-ons a little easier.

So I really wouldn't even need the head unit remote wire as I could use an accessory wire, but the difference would be the amps would be powered if I was driving and had the HU off. I'm sure I will still wire it up to the HU though.