Winners only.

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Energy sources that result in less overall pollution than current ones could be considered green on a simple evaluation, but it’s more about them being renewable or coming from natural sources.
Coal is natural, but burning it for energy is not. Solar, water, wind can be considered green.

What's renewable that doesn't harm the environment?

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

What's renewable that doesn't harm the environment?

Solar, wind, water can be.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Solar, wind, water can be.

Hydro is playing a major role in wild salmon runs dwindling to the point of Esa listing
Wind farms kill millions of endangered birds every year
Solar farms drastically change the surrounding environment with elevated temperatures

That's not even getting into the carbon footprint to dispose of decommissioned windmills or solar panels...

That's not even getting into the environmental damage cause to mine the rare earth minerals to produce solar panels. Or the creation of the various products in a windmill (aluminum, copper, etc)

Mining the minerals need for concrete isn't good for the environment for dam construction. Neither all the mining and refinement needed to produce materials to built the turbines.

And none of covers the carbon footprint for needed repairs, maintenance, and decommissioning processes.

None of that is good for the enviroment...so please tell me a renewable that doesn't harm the environment...

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Hydro is playing a major role in wild salmon runs dwindling to the point of Esa listing
Wind farms kill millions of endangered birds every year
Solar farms drastically change the surrounding environment with elevated temperatures

That's not even getting into the carbon footprint to dispose of decommissioned windmills or solar panels...

That's not even getting into the environmental damage cause to mine the rare earth minerals to produce solar panels. Or the creation of the various products in a windmill (aluminum, copper, etc)

Mining the minerals need for concrete isn't good for the environment for dam construction. Neither all the mining and refinement needed to produce materials to built the turbines.

And none of covers the carbon footprint for needed repairs, maintenance, and decommissioning processes.

None of that is good for the enviroment...so please tell me a renewable that doesn't harm the environment...

Hmmm, we have a major source of hydro in my region that affects no salmon whatsoever. Water-based energy doesn’t cause salmon issues, it’s the implementation that does.

Wind farms kill an estimated one million birds a year. Window strikes? One BILLION. Cats? Up to FOUR billion. Eliminate windows and cats if birds are your concern.

Solar FARMS. Put panels on every rooftop and skyscraper and tell me how it causes elevated temps versus the existing asphalt. Better yet, use mirrors that focus sun on a boiler in the desert. Panels are not zero-footprint, but they are significantly less footprint than fossil fuels AND are recyclable.

Dams are not zero footprint, but they are far less footprint than never-ending coal mining and oil extraction.

I could build a heater that doesn’t impact the environment negatively, but a true zero footprint source of energy on a large scale is not practical. Does that mean we should continue to make as big a footprint as possible?

Gas was over four real dollars per gallon in 1918. It was cheaper until recently. A model T then got 15mpg and produced 22HP. A Camry gets 35MPG and produces 268HP with a smaller carbon footprint . Should we not have made more efficient, less polluting vehicles since gas got cheaper over time?

Should we avoid new energy sources that have a smaller footprint but are not a ZERO footprint?

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Damming up rivers doesn't change the downstream environment...and in the patch nw...dams arep ap major contributor to wild salmon runs falling off...the block or reduce access to the vast majority of spawning habit...

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

The footprint on renewables isn't smaller right now...the effects may be different then fossil fuels but not less impactful on the environment...and changing to a more expensive energy source might feel good but will severely harm millions upon millions around the world...

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

The footprint on renewables isn't smaller right now...the effects may be different then fossil fuels but not less impactful on the environment...and changing to a more expensive energy source might feel good but will severely harm millions upon millions around the world...

Oh? Coal has an EROI of 10:1, Solar is 26:1, and Wind is 44:1.
That strongly suggests the renewables have a significantly smaller footprint.
Imagine making 10, 26, or 44 HP from the same gallon of gas. Yes, it’s a simplified example, but legit.

I’m not sure what you mean by changing to a more expensive source, but it may be something that NEEDS to be done.
It’s more expensive for factories to be clean than to just dump their waste in a river.
Should we revert to those times?

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Their comparing it to the same impact fossil fuel has...and it's not apples to apples comparing the 2...like I said "renewables" don't have same type of effects on the environment but they do have a massive impact in other ways that are still bad..

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Instead of trying switch over to an energy system that cannot meet our needs (because the tech isn't there yet) and pushing the narrative we're all gonna die in 2030 if we don't...why not get government investments out of green energy so real advancements can be made and make the transition when the tech is really ready...

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Because when I told you that Biden doesn't control has prices you had a shitt fit and wouldn't stop blaming him. I know that he doesn't control prices. Can you now admit that Biden doesn't control gas prices?

I cannot in good conscience say that. I think he 100% can AFFECT gas prices by his actions and or lack of actions.

As for him lowering gas prices... he better, he made them go up. I should clarify that when I speak about Joe Biden and how he affects... whatever. I am referring to Biden and his administration as one unit.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Guys... gals if there are any here... There is a source of heat right here on Earth that we can tap into. This heat can be used like nuclear energy to heat the water to spin the turbines that create the electricity. We tap into Earths natural heat maker........... Hot, liquid magma. Yes, you are supposed to picture Dr. Evil.

Electric cars. Why not fit the wheels/axles with generators? These generator can charge 1/2 of the cars battery pack while the car is being driven. When the main battery pack is low it can switch to the other batter pack and the generators can then charge the main battery. What doesn't get recharged can be charged at home and would require less charging time and energy. Saving money and the environment at the same time.

I have given you the tools to help this planet Earth. Go forth my children and live green.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Their comparing it to the same impact fossil fuel has...and it's not apples to apples comparing the 2...like I said "renewables" don't have same type of effects on the environment but they do have a massive impact in other ways that are still bad..

The EROI factors in the overall impact on the environment.
Like people bitching about the CEO of Goodwill getting paid millions: He gets paid millions because he is worth it in the big picture.
Solar impacts the environment, but less so overall than say, coal or oil.

 

[SlugButter]

Hydro is playing a major role in wild salmon runs dwindling to the point of Esa listing
Wind farms kill millions of endangered birds every year
Solar farms drastically change the surrounding environment with elevated temperatures

That's not even getting into the carbon footprint to dispose of decommissioned windmills or solar panels...

That's not even getting into the environmental damage cause to mine the rare earth minerals to produce solar panels. Or the creation of the various products in a windmill (aluminum, copper, etc)

Mining the minerals need for concrete isn't good for the environment for dam construction. Neither all the mining and refinement needed to produce materials to built the turbines.

And none of covers the carbon footprint for needed repairs, maintenance, and decommissioning processes.

None of that is good for the enviroment...so please tell me a renewable that doesn't harm the environment...

I can’t even eat salmon anymore from the store. Ever seen a fish corporation employ 1000 fisherman to fish for fresh water salmon? What we eat comes from fish farms in the ocean just before the salmon swim upstream into the fresh water rivers. it’s disgusting. The salmon are half dead and the meat is gray in color. Most of them are eaten alive by parasites. The corporations literally buy a special pink tint to dye the meat pink again from the dead gray color. Nothing we do is for the “environment”. It’s to feed corporations with cash. If they can make money claiming it’s for the environment, they will, and idiots will eat it up.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

I can’t even eat salmon anymore from the store. Ever seen a fish corporation employ 1000 fisherman to fish for fresh water salmon? What we eat comes from fish farms in the ocean just before the salmon swim upstream into the fresh water rivers. it’s disgusting. The salmon are half dead and the meat is gray in color. Most of them are eaten alive by parasites. The corporations literally buy a special pink tint to dye the meat pink again from the dead gray color.

Like $60 crabs that just eat dead sea life.
Gross.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Guys... gals if there are any here... There is a source of heat right here on Earth that we can tap into. This heat can be used like nuclear energy to heat the water to spin the turbines that create the electricity. We tap into Earths natural heat maker........... Hot, liquid magma. Yes, you are supposed to picture Dr. Evil.

Electric cars. Why not fit the wheels/axles with generators? These generator can charge 1/2 of the cars battery pack while the car is being driven. When the main battery pack is low it can switch to the other batter pack and the generators can then charge the main battery. What doesn't get recharged can be charged at home and would require less charging time and energy. Saving money and the environment at the same time.

I have given you the tools to help this planet Earth. Go forth my children and live green.

LOL