Which subs would work better for rock/metal music, Sundown SA12 or Alpine SWX-1243D

[SamIam71]

I am slowly building a system, but it is coming along. Soon I will be getting to the subs and amp. while I have been set on getting the sundowns, lately I have began to question if they are the right sub for my application or not. For the sake of simplicity if nothing else, I have decided to go with Alpine for everything with the exception of subs, I planned on SA12's. I am getting an Alpine MRX M-240 amp that makes 1,500W @ 4 ohms, regardless of which subs I get.

I mostly listen to rock and metal music, so booming is not so much desired as hitting. The more I read here and look around, it seems the Sundowns are well suited for the traditional long low bass tones found in rap,hi-hop, and dub-step. The alpines X series are built with aluminium windings and formers which makes me think they will offer the faster and crisper response the music I like demands. I know either one would be a good sub, but I have not listened to either and hoped some of you good people have and could share some knowledge/experience. As always. I appreciate your opinions and input.

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[bbeljefe]

It's the box, not the subs. You should be looking at either a sealed box (ewe) or a ported box designed with flat response.

Either of those two subs will do what you want or not what you want.... depending on the above.

 

[SamIam71]

I understand the box has a great deal to do with the final sound, and there is probably no better way to reproduce the sound of a bass drum than a sealed enclosure, but it seems sealed boxes miss a lot of the music and even more of the volume. Bass guitars roam all over the lower range of frequency and I would hate to miss out on that. It is just a richer, more full sound with the right port. I had not given sealed a second thought, but you are right to say they should be considered.

Unlike with rap where sub-bass tones are generated on one track with one dedicated machine, and they are far more deliberate, with rock, sub tones can come in from three or more instruments on three of more tracks. I have thought of running a ported 12" for longer lower tones and a couple sealed 8"s for the tighter slapping and beating sounds. I know it would require separate amps and a lot of dialing in to avoid cancellation, but rock on subs, even with sub tones, is almost like running them full range due to the multiple different tones happening at once.

 

[DFW40 10+ year member]

I have not used the type x but own a SA12 and have had it in several ported boxes testing etc. The box and tuning will be absolutely the most important part also which direction you have the box facing etc. I had had many subs and many boxes and relentlessly tinker and waste time and money like most of us right. The SA 12 in a ported box around 1.5 tuned to 33 hz sounded good on rock and 1.75 tuned to 38 also sounded very good. It was not perfect sounding it stumbled on a few notes and transitions but is flawless on others it is quick sounding but can generate unwanted distortion or mechanical noise or just not making the transition smoothly not sure exactly how to describe it. I have had some issues blending it with my midbass speakers on some songs and volumes. In my opinion and I have owned all 3 of these the JL W6 v2 the IDmax v3 and the Image Dynamics IDQ v.3 all sounded better on most music especially rock with like you said 3 different bass tracks and rumbles and beats. All 3 are all regarded as true SQ subs where the SA is closer to SQL and you can tell pretty easily. The W6/IDmax/IDQ blended easily at multiple crossover points and slopes where the SA was more finicky. If I were you I would go with two 12 inch IDQv3's I have not heard the new versions but the new 12's boast more excursion and power handling than v.3 and may sound better or worse not sure. If money were not an issue I would go with 2 IDmax's they can handle around 1000 watts a piece but can almost reach full excursion with half that power in the right box. To me the IDQv.3's sounded very similar to the IDmax just not the power handling or quite the excursion. I have my IDQ 10 in a ported box that is 1.36 cubes tuned to 39 hz with a f3 of 33hz and to me it is the best sounding sub for the money of the subs listed above including the SA12 for the type of music you like. 2 12's in a ported box with 700 watts a sub would sound perfect to me and that is about the right wattage for those subs imo. The Sundowns can get louder and take more abuse but will not be as smooth and accurate to me and I have them sitting in my garage and have swapped them out back to back listening to the same song etc. Hope this helps.

 

[SamIam71]

That helps a lot. It sounds like you have been to where I am going. Thank you.

 

[SamIam71]

I notice no one is even touching on those Alpine X-class subs.lol. Are they out of the question, or is it just for the money they cost that there is better stuff to be had?

 

[SplAffair 10+ year member]

I have a type x 12 great drivers. I got a good deal on it that's why I have it lol. For the money yes there are better options. Don't get me wrong I like this sub. A lot of people run sundown and love their equipment but I have no experience with them. All in all it's all about the box. Talk to a box designer and tell them what you're looking for. I'm sure they will get you going in the right direction.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Its more in the lines of, which subs are more picky. Your cabin gain, vehicle accoustics and how you can build your box to hit that sweet spot is more important then what brand of subs. I've had ported enclosures play kick drums just as good as a sealed box but its hella louder. Your going to want a larger box with adequate port area to give the flattest response possible. Find out your vehicle's peak frequency and use winISD to model something that would work well with that to smooth out the response curve. I listen from anywhere to old school metallica, megadeth to new school hadcore metals and trust me, its a lot of work building and tuning boxes to get the right sound. Sub brand is the least of your worries.

 

[SamIam71]

Man, first, thanks for the advice, secondly, I have played with WinsId until I am blue in the face. Since Sundown parameters aren't listed, manually entered their specs and worked out the box parameters a couple times. As for how they relate to the vehicle, I am lost. It is an extracab s10 this is going in. Not a lot of air at all in these truck. I could probably tune the sub by cracking the window to different heights.lol. I am just out to make a good daily beater. I will most likely hand this vehicle and system over to my son when I get back home in a few months. So, while I want it to sound good, I don't want to split too many hair doing it.

Another issue with being away is having few tools on hand. But, for the price difference in the Sundowns and Alpines, I could buy another table saw here and materiel to build the boxes if I go with the Sundowns(Which are my preference). I am in the middle of nowhere, 25 miles from canada in New York. The one shop around quoted me 600 bucks for just a box built of Sundown's specs as they show on their website. I keep thinking I will just grab a couple prefabs to do until I get home, but again, that is almost the money to buy a table saw and stuff to build a box. I think I just need to go buy some tools, as they hold value and are useful, build the box and be done. Once I am home, I will have all the tools i need and then some. I may hand over the ones I get here to my son, as he is taking interest in audio.

 

[DFW40 10+ year member]

samIam I guess you have a decent amount of room if you are looking at 2 twelves will the box be a truck box or a more traditional rectangular that sits on a seat?

 

[Phish]

I also listen to alot of rock and i currently have an Sa-12 in a 1.75 cu ft box (after displacement) tuned at 32hz and i did ok on all music. for rock it was choosy depending on how the track was made. The sa performs well on all music. I also have two 8's. Infinity References. ported box @ 34hz and that absolutely kicks and rumbles with rock/jazz/country. I'd recommend you going with a pair of 8's and a nice amp. I drive a minivan by the way and the two eights still flex the car so output shouldnt be a concern there. private message me if you'd like more details. GOOD LUCK!

 

[bbeljefe]

If you're willing to take the time to design and build it, a ¼ wave transmission line would be the best box to run. They're flat, have extremely good low end response and will blend very well with midbass.

And from what you've explained about your music listening habits, one 10 or 12 in a line would be sufficient. I'm running an SA-15 in a line and I listen mostly to metal and alternative rock.

Oh and, I would never consider a sealed box for myself.

 

[platinumjason]

I listen to a lot of metal and have a SA-12 tuned to 33 hz and just under 2 cubes and it sounds pretty good. Its a little slow sounding on some of fast drumming but other than that sounds great.

 

[WhatsAminiTruck]

Like others have stated, its all about the box. Always has been, always will be.

But with the subs, that SA-12 will take WAY more abuse.

 

[azimuth 5,000+ posts]

Didn't read entire thread, but it is about box, as said. I listen to metal, and was happy with my type r 12 ported, my old fosgate 15 sealed, and some jl w3 8's. Had a sealed focal that rocked metal beautifully. The diamond 10 I have now ported is flat out impressive in a small box. You'll be good with anything you go with suggested above. Wood my brotha, erected correctly rocks it hard.