When does cone area stop being a factor?

[Kangaroux 5,000+ posts]

Power compression is the two word answer most of you are seeking.

You mean like squeezin your ass cheeks together when you rip a fat one to achieve maximum air pressure and thrust?

 

[OmegaBunny 10+ year member]

You mean like squeezin your ass cheeks together when you rip a fat one to achieve maximum air pressure and thrust?

Add a blanket to the equations and you have a power compressed dutch oven!!! also....

Reported for trolling in the tech section noob!

 

[fullwoofer2121 10+ year member]

funny I have been wondering about when does watts stop making a difference and you need to move to more subs or cone area.

 

[OmegaBunny 10+ year member]

Its all confusing and I think I have come to realize it just takes trial and error to see what works for specific applications. Where in Western PA are you from?

 

[Imtjnotu 5,000+ posts]

xmax......Box.....Efficiency....

 

[wenn_du_weinst 10+ year member]

I think maybe at 155-160 on music is where you start to need cone area to get there, anything less and you can do it 1-2 12's or 15's

 

[VWBobby 10+ year member]

xmax......Box.....Efficiency....

That's pretty much what it comes down to. No replacement for displacement, and the type of box/install for the equipment.

If you compare a subwoofer to a piston engine's bore and stroke, you get a good idea of how it relates. The bore (piston size) would be your cone area, the stroke is the Xmax. If you want to displace a lot of air, you either need more cone area, lots of xmax or a combination of both.

These are not exact numbers, but here is the relation:

1) One 10" sub with an xmax of 15mm = ~One 12" sub with an xmax of around 8mm.

2) One 10" sub with an xmax of 30mm = ~One 12" sub with an xmax of 15mm

These are approximates to show the relation of xmax verses cone area.

For all out SPL applications, port effects (tuning, velocity, direction and type), box type, position of the box in the cab, frequency played at - all give an extra edge when comparing 2 systems with the exact same equipment (subs, amps).

Efficiency. The more efficient the sub, the less power it takes to move the same amount of xmax as another sub. A 97db @ 1W, 1M is going to be a lot more sensitive and take a lot less power than a sub that is 80db @ 1W, 1M. This is how you can take 8 "cheap" subs with higher sensitivity and make them out perform 2 - 4 subs with less sensitivity, AS LONG AS the xmax of both subs is pretty similar at max output. If you have 1 sub putting out 15mm xmax and another one at 50mm, that is an unfair advantage of the higher xmax sub.

That being said, there is a lot of ways to reach over 150db with a Single 12" sub and moderate amount of power, but many fail to see how this is possible. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif 90% install, 10% equipment is the key to this equation.....

 

[pro-rabbit 5,000+ posts]

I think maybe at 155-160 on music is where you start to need cone area to get there, anything less and you can do it 1-2 12's or 15's

Naw, numbers mean nothing when considering all other factors. By the time you pass the high 140s it is all application. I have tried about everything method know to man to make it a mathematical or a simple answer over the years and it simply don't work. Each and every application is different regardless of pressure already created.

What works for car A may be more cone area, where car B needs more power, and car C needs to adjust port/sub placement.

Funny thing is I have seen that happen in the exact same year/make/model car with 3 different owners.

 

[wenn_du_weinst 10+ year member]

Naw, numbers mean nothing when considering all other factors. By the time you pass the high 140s it is all application. I have tried about everything method know to man to make it a mathematical or a simple answer over the years and it simply don't work. Each and every application is different regardless of pressure already created.
What works for car A may be more cone area, where car B needs more power, and car C needs to adjust port/sub placement.

Funny thing is I have seen that happen in the exact same year/make/model car with 3 different owners.

show me a 160 music car with single 12'' please.

 

[ahole-ic]

show me a 160 music car with single 12'' please.

show me a 155 music car single 12" please

 

[pro-rabbit 5,000+ posts]

show me a 160 music car with single 12'' please.

Perhaps your lack of an open mind is clouding what I said. Please reread and try again.

Also look up the euro guys as I do think there are some single 12" and single 15" setups that are far louder then you this possible.

Also keep in mind that every time we think we have maxed out what can be done with in certain limits, some one comes along and shows that we are only at the tip of the glacier.

As I said before, everyone has their own views on this matter and many others. That is why this debate is always brought up.

To help clear it up, I'm not saying a single sub can be the end all setup. Cone area will play a part as does power and many other factors. However, cone area and/or power is not always the answer in generating numbers even on music.

 

[wenn_du_weinst 10+ year member]

show me a 155 music car single 12" please

I can't because I can't get onto caco

 

[ahole-ic]

I can't

Fixed

 

[Kangaroux 5,000+ posts]

Fixed

lulz

 

[OmegaBunny 10+ year member]

I can't because I can't get onto caco

For knowing everything, you don't seem to know how to get around an IP ban //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif