When does cone area stop being a factor?

[OmegaBunny 10+ year member]

I always hear the comparison that more cone area is generally better but how true is that? For example will someone with 2 crappy 12's, say cheap Kenwoods be louder than someone with 1 nightshade 15 or a DD9515 on the same power? The 12's have more cone area but the 15's are all around better subs. What other factors are needed to take into account?

I know the NS and 9515 can take more power but I was using that as an example. Given the same power, will the kenwoods be louder?

Sorry for the confusion if any was caused.

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[kramer_212 10+ year member]

I always hear the comparison that more cone area is generally better but how true is that? For example will someone with 2 crappy 12's, say cheap Kenwoods be louder than someone with 1 nightshade 15 or a DD9515 on the same power? The 12's have more cone area but the 15's are all around better subs. What other factors are needed to take into account?
I know the NS and 9515 can take more power but I was using that as an example. Given the same power, will the kenwoods be louder?

Sorry for the confusion if any was caused.

i think this is backwards?

see post #4 sorry

 

[IonRL205 10+ year member]

Your enclosure is really the main factor.

i think this is backwards?

Two 12s is more cone area than one 15.

 

[kramer_212 10+ year member]

Your enclosure is really the main factor.


Two 12s is more cone area than one 15.

oh shiiz sorry guys thought it was one 12 vs on 15

and then i realized that i never did pass the 2nd grade //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nerd.gif.c6fa51ddf7ff75f1c0371fbc648f70ae.gif

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Cone area....well that and concrete filled doors and 1" bulletproof glass.

Really though, cone area is good, but moving air is moving air, one small sub with a lot of excursion can do the work of many larger ones that aren't moving much. You really can't compare one size one brand to another size of a completely different woofer. Each situation would have to be considered on a case by case basis and also the application and enclosure.

I would say given the same power a wall of 24 Sony X-plod quality 12's would be louder than any single 15 of anything at about any power level...then again one will only take up 4 or 5 cube, and the other will be a full van.

 

[kramer_212 10+ year member]

lolz im enjoying every minute of this accept the guy in the back round saying :whats that: over and over and over.

 

[OmegaBunny 10+ year member]

So you also need to take excursion into account. So this would also include all the soft parts then and which sub uses better parts. How much of an effect does motor force play?

 

[pro-rabbit 5,000+ posts]

There are many things to consider.

However, the application will tell you what to run sooner or later(if your going for numbers and/or just loud).

You have to remember that the environment of the application plays a large roll as well as enclosure.

 

[OmegaBunny 10+ year member]

I really need to find someone with a TL so I can fiqure out what my car peaks out and I can start to learn this stuff hands on. I may ask for a dual mic TL for my birthday. It takes a lot more time for me to learn by reading, I need to experience everything hands on. **** ADHD

 

[The_Grimy_One 10+ year member]

I feel motor force is still very important, as well as efficiency. But regardless, people who are great builders can take some trashy subs, (a bunch of them), and put up some numbers. It may sound like complete garbage on music, but will put numbers up.

 

[OmegaBunny 10+ year member]

I know that, look at Taylorfade and his Pyles. What pisses me off is hearing a car coming and you find out that its a coupe crappy mismatched 12's thrown in a poorly built box and everything was done in 6 hours. Not that that has happened to me because I know my systems limitations at the moment (single 12 in a sealed fiberglass enclosure) but it still pisses me off.

 

[Falcons 5,000+ posts]

well i know big will (tuffguy40) had his 4 zcons on less power and beat a dude with less cone area on more power in a mustang. thats just numbers but its still something to look at.

 

[ahole-ic]

There is something that gets overlooked a lot. That is time. You see if the cone's forward stroke is powered by a peak of a wave energizing the coil, then it will immediately break down and go to a trough, which reverses the polarity of the coil's electromagnet sending the cone the other direction. This means that there is a very specific amount of time for the cone to travel in a given direction. This is of course not ALL dictated by motor force. The suspension and moving mass all resist whatever motor force is present. So, with all of this said can the OP's question be answered in such a simple fashion? No. This is all amount what driver can displace the most air in the shortest amount of time.

There was an assumption that cheap 12's will get louder on less power than a 9515 will. That is simply not true. There is this misconception that high end drivers simply handle more power so they don't perform until they have reached full power. That could not be further from the truth. If a driver is more efficient than another, it will be more efficient at all volume levels. It doesn't wait until some magical amount of power is applied to it and then starts to "come alive" as the uninformed like to put it on this forum.

 

[OmegaBunny 10+ year member]

So in a nutshell a better designed and built sub has the potential to perform better with any amount of power, meaning cone area is only one of many factors.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Power compression is the two word answer most of you are seeking.