What would happen.....

[Hundreth 10+ year member]

I don't really have a favorite group of people in the middle east, period. I do however realize that US support for Israel is a top reason for most Islamic terrorism. Secondly, I think the whole Israeli state is bullshit and shouldn't be funded by my tax dollars. I don't agree with organizations such as Hamas or Hezbollah, but I understand their motives.
Israel would not be shit without the US, end of story. Yes they have the most advanced military in the region...I wonder why. Secondly, an advanced military doesn't exacly mean victory. Shit, look at Iraq. We cant even control 25 million people and we're supposed to be the greatest military in the world. Sheesh.

The whole Israeli state is bullshit, so **** em right? Everyone *****es at Israel for being so evil to the Arab people and causing all this humanitarian disasters and whatever. But do you have any idea what would happen if Israel was weak and could lose the war? It would be a massacre... the Arabs would have ZERO compassion and they would quickly demolish the entire land of Israel with everyone in it.

If you can't handle the first "disaster," why do you support the second so diligently?

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060730/wl_nm/mideast_iran_revenge_dc

oh shyt!

Israel's army said it destroyed an Iranian-made Zelzal missile with range of between 74 and 99 miles before it was launched.

SWEET!

 

[RangerMan Premium Member]

Glad we can start this thread back up

 

[Brock 5,000+ posts]

The whole Israeli state is bullshit, so **** em right? Everyone *****es at Israel for being so evil to the Arab people and causing all this humanitarian disasters and whatever. But do you have any idea what would happen if Israel was weak and could lose the war? It would be a massacre... the Arabs would have ZERO compassion and they would quickly demolish the entire land of Israel with everyone in it.
If you can't handle the first "disaster," why do you support the second so diligently?

First : Yes, the holocaust was bad. Terrible.

Second : Yes, the Israeli state is responsible for *most* of this conflict if you look at a timeline since 1948. (and actually even before then.)

However : The holocaust is not an excuse for aid. Sure they deserved a little help to get back on their feet, but nothing like this. This is going to sound really bad, but people have hated Jews for a long time. It's not like they picked the name randomly out of a hat. Something had to have been done to piss everyone else off...and speaking from a world scale, I really do mean everyone else.

Now, I don't have anything against Jews, nor do I have anything against Muslims. They're both cool in my book, but this shit is out of hand. Everyone here in the US who supports military funding and GW say one thing, "Whoever has the biggest gun wins." Good. If it wasn't for the USA the Israeli state WOULD BE demolished. Why? Because they are weaker. Stand by your word. If you don't believe me, watch the news and look at those F-16's flying over Lebanon. There is really no arguement there.

Furthermore, why do the Jews get so much from us and nobody else does? We keep their state alive, and how do they repay us? By pulling shit like killing civillians and causing more muslim terrorists to point their fingers at big brother United States? You know, the Jews were not the only people to suffer a genocide, but they are the ones receiving all the benefits. You don't believe me, study a little bit about Rwanda. Approximately 1,000,000 Tutsis were killed within 100 days. That's faster than Nazi Germany killed the Jews, and guess what...they used machetes one by one! What did they get? A UN council making sure they didn't label the tragedy a 'genocide' because otherwise they would be forced to interveine. On top of that, this was taking place the same time Clinton was dedicating the new Holocaust memorial in DC claming in his speech the words, "Never again."

All in all, Jews are straight, but I don't believe they deserve anything. If 50 years isn't enough time to get your shit together and do it on your own, maybe you shouln't be doing what you are doing.

Finally, I'm coming to your house at gunpoint and moving in. I';m brining all my friends as well. I'm also kicking you out and letting you take only what you can carry on your back. If you want to fight me, I'm sure you will need more than those rocks on the ground because I have a fleet of tanks, planes, and missiles. Don't let your kids act up or I will kill them. You know, I'm sure you won't mind.

 

[Slammed 5,000+ posts]

Oh yeah, like this view?


To all of you *****ing and moaning about Israel's actions, I ask if you'd like to see them lose this war. If you do, you are not sympathizing for the Lebanese community or the Palestinians or anything, you are simply anti-semetic... and I hope a Native American comes to your house and explodes in it.

no...I dont think muslims > jews (I never said that)

I never said that...you know very well what I was quoting so please do not try to read my mind....you arent very good at it!

another thing....what do you think of all the innocents being killed?

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Wow...an Israeli soldier defending his country returns fire on a coward hiding among women and children and the soldier is the savage? An organization sworn to destroy your country sends murderers into markets and bus stations wearing vests made of explosive and indiscriminately kills scores of women and children who are just trying to live out their lives and those trying to defend those women and children are in the wrong? This same organization is launching unguided rockets at civilian populations wounding and killing women and children who have nothing to do with the fighting, but attempting to stop these attacks is wrong? It is total hypocrissy on the part of anyone who can condemn Israeli actions in defense of their home but not totally **** the actions of Hezbollah and Hamas as the most cowardly of acts.

If you don't think that Iran is already totally behind this, you need to do some research on the history of Hezbollah. This whole conflict is a ruse to draw international attention and pressure away from the shady shit that they are up to.

For those of you that think Israel is only where it is because of our technology, if you look at the weaponry that they are using, some of it (F-15s and F-16s specifically) are purchased from the US, but hte bulk of their weapons are designed and produced in Israel. When your primary concern as a nation is surviving against neighbors who would like nothing more than to see you wiped from the earth, you don't depend on anyone but yourself.

 

[Slammed 5,000+ posts]

Im staying quiet on this

you all know why //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Hundreth 10+ year member]

First : Yes, the holocaust was bad. Terrible.
Second : Yes, the Israeli state is responsible for *most* of this conflict if you look at a timeline since 1948. (and actually even before then.)

However : The holocaust is not an excuse for aid. Sure they deserved a little help to get back on their feet, but nothing like this. This is going to sound really bad, but people have hated Jews for a long time. It's not like they picked the name randomly out of a hat. Something had to have been done to piss everyone else off...and speaking from a world scale, I really do mean everyone else.

First off, I never even mentioned the holocaust, so I don't know why you keep bringing it up as if I'm using it as a defense. Secondly, you are implying that theres a good reason why most of the world hates Jews. Your right, it does sound really bad. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Now, I don't have anything against Jews, nor do I have anything against Muslims. They're both cool in my book, but this shit is out of hand. Everyone here in the US who supports military funding and GW say one thing, "Whoever has the biggest gun wins." Good. If it wasn't for the USA the Israeli state WOULD BE demolished. Why? Because they are weaker. Stand by your word. If you don't believe me, watch the news and look at those F-16's flying over Lebanon. There is really no arguement there.

Heres the thing, you misunderstand the entire conflict. Its not about winning, its about the result of WHO wins. We have one scenario where the Israeli State "wins" and they reserve the RIGHT TO EXIST. We have a second scenario, where the Israeli state is torn to shreds and demolished sending the Jews back to a pre-1948 diaspora. I wonder which is a bigger humanitarian disaster. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

Another thing, define "weaker." Because I don't get wtf you are talking about.

Furthermore, why do the Jews get so much from us and nobody else does? We keep their state alive, and how do they repay us? By pulling shit like killing civillians and causing more muslim terrorists to point their fingers at big brother United States? You know, the Jews were not the only people to suffer a genocide, but they are the ones receiving all the benefits. You don't believe me, study a little bit about Rwanda. Approximately 1,000,000 Tutsis were killed within 100 days. That's faster than Nazi Germany killed the Jews, and guess what...they used machetes one by one! What did they get? A UN council making sure they didn't label the tragedy a 'genocide' because otherwise they would be forced to interveine. On top of that, this was taking place the same time Clinton was dedicating the new Holocaust memorial in DC claming in his speech the words, "Never again."

The United States helps Israel plenty, thats granted. But they give aid to MANY other people too. Your commentry about how Israel results in terrorists pointing fingers at the US shows what a coward you are. You are the type of person the terrorists strive on. "Israel is f*cked up because terrorists hate them and now they hate us too." Its such a retarded argument. Your next argument is also just as stupid, we all know the world is ****ed up and things aren't always dealt 100% fair. It doesn't mean that Israel should be overrun and destroyed by terrorists. You are talking about the same UN now thats trying to get a cease-fire in favor of Lebanon.

All in all, Jews are straight, but I don't believe they deserve anything. If 50 years isn't enough time to get your shit together and do it on your own, maybe you shouln't be doing what you are doing.

If you don't think the state of Israel is doing everything it possibly can to independantly stay on its feet, you are a fool. Do you realize that the state of Israel is about the size of New Jersey? Compare that to all the surrounding Arab states and it looks like a peanut next to an Elephant. Of course they need aid. You implying that they are simply incompetant because they need aid is just ridiculous.

Finally, I'm coming to your house at gunpoint and moving in. I';m brining all my friends as well. I'm also kicking you out and letting you take only what you can carry on your back. If you want to fight me, I'm sure you will need more than those rocks on the ground because I have a fleet of tanks, planes, and missiles. Don't let your kids act up or I will kill them. You know, I'm sure you won't mind.

I could go into a whole argument right now trying to explain to you why the state of Israel merely deserves the right to exist, but theres no point. You can make the same argument about ANY border lines on the planet at this time. History decides the border lines of the present. Maybe something unfair happened in the past (thats up for debate,) but even if it did... If you believe that Israel should be demolished by the surrounding Arab states you are no better than the people who you are so badly condemning.

 

[Hundreth 10+ year member]

no...I dont think muslims > jews (I never said that)
I never said that...you know very well what I was quoting so please do not try to read my mind....you arent very good at it!

another thing....what do you think of all the innocents being killed?

My bad about the reading your mind thing... as to your other question:

I think its REALLY messed up. I don't think its messed up on Israel's part, I think its messed up on Lebanon/Hezbollah's part. I call it Lebanon/Hezbollah because really if you read between the lines you will realize that they both have the same agenda, its just hidden.

You have a country that has this huge anti-semetic militant group just saying "we can't do anything about it... too bad." Then we see a war in that country, what do you expect!?

On top of that, that same country is now saying their "army" will stand by Hezbollah against Israel instead of fighting Hezbollah. Its not hard to see why Lebanon is getting hammered. They deserve it. The civilians don't, the government does. The reason why the civilians get the worst of the war is because the terrorists/Lebanese government design it just that way. They could care less about their people and its the truth.

Hezbollah hides behind the civilians, its a fact that I'd love to see you try argue. If the Lebanese government had the balls to stop a growing problem in their OWN country, you wouldn't see such horrible civilian casualties.

Its like if someone's dog attacks you and that someone won't take responsibility for it. Well I'm sorry, that dog needs to be put to sleep before it attacks me again.

So in conclusion, what do I think about the civilian casualties in Lebanon? Well I think both Hezbollah and the Lebanese government are cowards. I'd love to hear your response, if you would be so kind as to give one. We aren't gonna change each others minds, even after I wrote this entire thing its true. Its still fun when other people chime in, and in the end, someone's opinion changes.

 

[Brock 5,000+ posts]

I just said I don't want my tax dollars to pay for their aid. Nor do I want my tax dollars funding the Iraqi war...or anything else of that sort. I also didn't say they deserve to be demolished, I simply just would not give a shit if they were. The logic of the formation of Israel is about the same as saying that it would be ok for Muslims to take over southern Spain because they lived there a while ago, all while running all the Spaniards out.

I'm not siding with Hezbollah or Iran...I'm saying that they are all idiots, it's just that Israel gets some money for it.

Israel has a technologically advanced market economy with substantial government participation. It depends on imports of crude oil, grains, raw materials, and military equipment. Despite limited natural resources, Israel has intensively developed its agricultural and industrial sectors over the past 20 years. Israel imports substantial quantities of grain, but is largely self-sufficient in other agricultural products. Cut diamonds, high-technology equipment, and agricultural products (fruits and vegetables) are the leading exports. Israel usually posts sizable current account deficits, which are covered by large transfer payments from abroad and by foreign loans. Roughly half of the government's external debt is owed to the US, which is its major source of economic and military aid. The bitter Israeli-Palestinian conflict; difficulties in the high-technology, construction, and tourist sectors; and fiscal austerity in the face of growing inflation led to small declines in GDP in 2001 and 2002. The economy rebounded in 2003 and 2004, growing at a 4% rate each year, as the government tightened fiscal policy and implemented structural reforms to boost competition and efficiency in the markets. In 2005, rising consumer confidence, tourism, and foreign direct investment - as well as higher demand for Israeli exports - boosted GDP by 4.7%.

Public debt: 99.7% of GDP (2005 est.)

Debt - external: $75.55 billion (2005 est.)

Military expenditures - percent of GDP: 7.7% (2005 est.)

Wow.

 

[Hundreth 10+ year member]

I just said I don't want my tax dollars to pay for their aid. Nor do I want my tax dollars funding the Iraqi war...or anything else of that sort. I also didn't say they deserve to be demolished, I simply just would not give a shit if they were. The logic of the formation of Israel is about the same as saying that it would be ok for Muslims to take over southern Spain because they lived there a while ago, all while running all the Spaniards out.
I'm not siding with Hezbollah or Iran...I'm saying that they are all idiots, it's just that Israel gets some money for it.

Would you give a shit if Israel just took over all the Arab countries militarily and completely controlled the Middle East? Either way you wouldn't have to pay taxes for them anymore.

I thought so...

I can't tell whether you are cheap or stupid...

 

[Brock 5,000+ posts]

Would you give a shit if Israel just took over all the Arab countries militarily and completely controlled the Middle East? Either way you wouldn't have to pay taxes for them anymore.
I thought so...

I can't tell whether you are cheap or stupid...

Is it possible to leave out the name-calling? It really has no place in a debate.

My opinion is feasible, bottom line.

And to answer your question, no. But you are wrong. The only way that would happen is with United States support...even you said yourself (in a roundabout way) that Israel needs support. It would not be possible for them to takeover the entire middle east on their own. So, by answering that question I'm falling in a trap.

I'm not cheap and I'm not stupid. I'm going to pay taxes regardless of Israel's situation, I'd just like them to be used for things I approve of. Things that benefit my home, not someone elses. That being said, if I have to watch my money fund Israel, I'd also like to see the same aid go to other places who really need it. Other places who aren't forcibly occupying even more land than they were granted in the first place.

I guess I'm the opposite of cheap because I would be willing to pay more taxes, provided they were used appropriately.

I'm going to agree to disagree with you on this one, you can direct your fallacies to someone else.

 

[Hundreth 10+ year member]

Is it possible to leave out the name-calling? It really has no place in a debate.
My opinion is feasible, bottom line.

And to answer your question, no. But you are wrong. The only way that would happen is with United States support...even you said yourself (in a roundabout way) that Israel needs support. It would not be possible for them to takeover the entire middle east on their own. So, by answering that question I'm falling in a trap.

I'm not cheap and I'm not stupid. I'm going to pay taxes regardless of Israel's situation, I'd just like them to be used for things I approve of. Things that benefit my home, not someone elses. That being said, if I have to watch my money fund Israel, I'd also like to see the same aid go to other places who really need it. Other places who aren't forcibly occupying even more land than they were granted in the first place.

I guess I'm the opposite of cheap because I would be willing to pay more taxes, provided they were used appropriately.

I'm going to agree to disagree with you on this one, you can direct your fallacies to someone else.

Lol I'll again apologize for the name calling. I put my foot in my mouth too many times in this thread already.

Anyways, I used such harsh words because what you said in your last post was anything but being for co-existence, it was for exactly the opposite. It was like you were spewing the opinion of the terrorists themselves. Thats what irked me. Plus that coupled with your muslims > jews post. You didn't exactly put forth a clean debate yourself.

I'm sorry that you don't agree that Israel really needs it. Either way, atleast the rest of your post wasn't hypocritical.

I'm gonna shutup now for awhile because I've already gave my opinion and then some. Waiting on Slammed now, my favorite Middle-East debater lol.

 

[Brock 5,000+ posts]

Lol I'll again apologize for the name calling. I put my foot in my mouth too many times in this thread already.
Anyways, I used such harsh words because what you said in your last post was anything but being for co-existence, it was for exactly the opposite. It was like you were spewing the opinion of the terrorists themselves. Thats what irked me. Plus that coupled with your muslims > jews post. You didn't exactly put forth a clean debate yourself.

I'm sorry that you don't agree that Israel really needs it. Either way, atleast the rest of your post isn't hypocritical.

1. Thanks

2. Oh, I'm all about co-existance. Anyone who knows me knows that. The muslims > jews comment was just a joke, but sarcasm doesn't exactly translate to sarcasm over the internets. I think I explain my opinion fairly well considering its a leisure forum and I'm not really into typing a whole lot.

3. I agree that Israel needs it if they want to keep on the way they are, but that isn't the point. The point is that they are pushy and always have been. I know this time around they didn't start it, but they aren't doing a good job of finishing it...and neither are we. It's hard to cram 50+ years of history into one paragraph, but lets just agree to say Israel isn't innocent. This conflict has been going on for longer than anyone on the forum has been alive (with the exception of Steve j/k haha). I think most people side with Israel because they just don't like muslims, and I think most people dont like muslims because they believe everything they hear on the news. Bottom line, you come into my home forcefully, I'm going to kill you. There's no talking about it diplomatically, one of us has to leave. As much as Israel is a home to Jews, it was a home to Palestinians. I don't care that it says in a book that God says its their land. They moved in forcibly and will forever have to face the fact of that. Call the Palestinians / Lebanese / Jordanians / Egyptians / Syrians / etc terrorists all you want...they're just doing (theoretically) what I hope every American would do if someone moved in and kicked us out of our country.

 

[Slammed 5,000+ posts]

My bad about the reading your mind thing... as to your other question:
I think its REALLY messed up. I don't think its messed up on Israel's part, I think its messed up on Lebanon/Hezbollah's part. I call it Lebanon/Hezbollah because really if you read between the lines you will realize that they both have the same agenda, its just hidden.

You have a country that has this huge anti-semetic militant group just saying "we can't do anything about it... too bad." Then we see a war in that country, what do you expect!?

On top of that, that same country is now saying their "army" will stand by Hezbollah against Israel instead of fighting Hezbollah. Its not hard to see why Lebanon is getting hammered. They deserve it. The civilians don't, the government does. The reason why the civilians get the worst of the war is because the terrorists/Lebanese government design it just that way. They could care less about their people and its the truth.

Hezbollah hides behind the civilians, its a fact that I'd love to see you try argue. If the Lebanese government had the balls to stop a growing problem in their OWN country, you wouldn't see such horrible civilian casualties.

Its like if someone's dog attacks you and that someone won't take responsibility for it. Well I'm sorry, that dog needs to be put to sleep before it attacks me again.

So in conclusion, what do I think about the civilian casualties in Lebanon? Well I think both Hezbollah and the Lebanese government are cowards. I'd love to hear your response, if you would be so kind as to give one. We aren't gonna change each others minds, even after I wrote this entire thing its true. Its still fun when other people chime in, and in the end, someone's opinion changes.

I dont agree with Hezbollah's actions and tactics....

its just sad watching all these innocents die for their mistakes.