What is?

[moe3152]

You know he won't answer. Let me help him out. Drum roll please........the answer is "MONEY!" Lots and lots of money. And you and I and every other tax payer in this great country paid for it.

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

Don’t play dumb and have me waste my time showing links proving the covid vax doesn’t stop the spread. I think we all know from the line the left said at the start it stops the spread and quickly back tracked that after. Same with it stop you from getting covid. Even Jim77 is aware of this, I know that virtue is hard to let go of brother.

I never said the people over 65 years old don’t matter. They like anyone else could have been recommended the jab and they themselves on their own could have made the choice to get vaxxed. Same with those with pre existing conditions or for those with the virtue signaling cravings or those that are paranoid of their own shadow.

The data is out there the covid vaccine does nothing if you take it to help others and neither does the flu vaccine cause guess what? They haven’t been eradicated . Now to my knowledge the polio vaccine did just that but it’s a different kind of virus and that vaccine to get right took a long time. With all the doses it’s what 99-100% effective? That is worth taking and it was tested for well over a decade.

So for the last time I will ask this, why mandate a vaccine that doesn’t stop the spread? Let’s pretend we are talking hypothetically and not about the covid vaccine. I don’t want you to risk losing your virtue but I know you won’t answer this question cause if you do, that virtue is gone. I’ll hold my breath waiting for an answer

I think more accurately some people on the left oversold the vaccine's efficacy. Many people both left and right were pumping the brakes right out the gate. The "partial immunity" narrative was being circulate prior to vax being approved. Additionally, it's inaccurate to say taking the vax for others does nothing for others; clearly if a vaxxed person doesn't contract Covid then he can't pass it along. If I'm less sick due to the vax, then I shed less virus, which benefits those around me. The flu and covid will always be with us because the virus infects other mammals so there is alway a reservoir of virus out there that we can't eliminate.

 

[RobGMN 5,000+ posts]

Study finds gradual increase in covid infection risk after second vaccine dose - BMJ Group

Results confirm that protection wanes with time and suggest a third (booster) dose might be warranted A study published by The BMJ today finds a gradual increase in the risk of covid-19 infection from 90 days after receiving a second dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. The study was carried out...

www.bmj.com

There is no such evidence in there.

 

[RobGMN 5,000+ posts]

Dear Rob,
What's obvious is you ignoring the people who lost their jobs for not getting a jab. Or the front line doctors who saved lives with alternatives to jabs and ventilators and had their careers destroyed by the CDC. You obviously think those weren't freedoms. Which fits right in with any authoritarian society. Boy it's good that you weren't around when they wrote the Bill of Rights.

Hey, here's an idea. Why don't you ask the computer nerd what he thinks personal freedoms are? After all, he is a self proclaimed expert on so many things. And you like him.

You’re introducing a red herring.
Try again. The people who have been here a while (at least most of them) don’t fall for that nonsense.

The argument for or against the efficacy of the vax has nothing to do with how businesses were impacted by the pandemic.
Try to stay on topic.

 

[RobGMN 5,000+ posts]

Don’t play dumb and have me waste my time showing links proving the covid vax doesn’t stop the spread. I think we all know from the line the left said at the start it stops the spread and quickly back tracked that after. Same with it stop you from getting covid. Even Jim77 is aware of this, I know that virtue is hard to let go of brother.

I never said the people over 65 years old don’t matter. They like anyone else could have been recommended the jab and they themselves on their own could have made the choice to get vaxxed. Same with those with pre existing conditions or for those with the virtue signaling cravings or those that are paranoid of their own shadow.

The data is out there the covid vaccine does nothing if you take it to help others and neither does the flu vaccine cause guess what? They haven’t been eradicated . Now to my knowledge the polio vaccine did just that but it’s a different kind of virus and that vaccine to get right took a long time. With all the doses it’s what 99-100% effective? That is worth taking and it was tested for well over a decade.

So for the last time I will ask this, why mandate a vaccine that doesn’t stop the spread? Let’s pretend we are talking hypothetically and not about the covid vaccine. I don’t want you to risk losing your virtue but I know you won’t answer this question cause if you do, that virtue is gone. I’ll hold my breath waiting for an answer

Ahhh, don’t “waste your time” asking you to prove a claim you’ve made. A claim that has been handily disproved millions of times over.

No, I’ll feel free to waste your time.
Go ahead and prove your claims that vaccines don’t stop the spread of disease.

BTW, the polio vax was tested on Salk’s family for a year, then on 1.6M Canadians for a year based on the results of Salk’s family test. Then it was approved.
2 years total.
Due to a pandemic that killed 3,000 people.
Not 10 years.
Don’t make false statements to support your already false narrative.

And your hypothetical doesn’t merit an answer, because it’s based on a nonsensical premise: That a vaccine doesn’t stop the spread of disease.
It’s been known since the 1800s that vaccines DO stop the spread.

Your hypothetical might as well say “if the vaccine saved your life but took away the eyesight of someone in Namibia, would you do it?”. Ridiculous.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

And your hypothetical doesn’t merit an answer, because it’s based on a nonsensical premise: That a vaccine doesn’t stop the spread of disease.
It’s been known since the 1800s that vaccines DO stop the spread.

Your hypothetical might as well say “if the vaccine saved your life but took away the eyesight of someone in Namibia, would you do it?”. Ridiculous.

Hmm…let’s use Rob clown logic here…if vaccines do stop the spread, and covid shots don’t stop the spread, then covid shots aren’t vaccines

‘DR. FAUCI: One of the things that's clear from the data [is] that even though vaccines - because of the high degree of transmissibility of this virus - don't protect overly well, as it were, against infection, they protect quite well against severe disease leading to hospitalization and death. And I believe that's the reason, Neil, why at my age, being vaccinated and boosted, even though it didn't protect me against infection, I feel confident that it made a major role in protecting me from progressing to severe disease….’

Fauci admits that COVID-19 vaccines do not protect 'overly well' against infection

White House chief medical adviser Dr. Anthony Fauci expounded on COVID-19 vaccines' efficacy and breakthrough COVID infections Tuesday on "Your World."

www.foxnews.com

 

[djdilliodon!]

Ahhh, don’t “waste your time” asking you to prove a claim you’ve made. A claim that has been handily disproved millions of times over.

No, I’ll feel free to waste your time.
Go ahead and prove your claims that vaccines don’t stop the spread of disease.

BTW, the polio vax was tested on Salk’s family for a year, then on 1.6M Canadians for a year based on the results of Salk’s family test. Then it was approved.
2 years total.
Due to a pandemic that killed 3,000 people.
Not 10 years.
Don’t make false statements to support your already false narrative.

And your hypothetical doesn’t merit an answer, because it’s based on a nonsensical premise: That a vaccine doesn’t stop the spread of disease.
It’s been known since the 1800s that vaccines DO stop the spread.

Your hypothetical might as well say “if the vaccine saved your life but took away the eyesight of someone in Namibia, would you do it?”. Ridiculous.

Ok no problem https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...S-CoV-2-virions-even-if-COVID-vaccinated.aspx

Let me read again about polio cause it’s been a long time. My memory says that it took them over a decade to perfect it. If I got it wrong that is my bad. I know I’m not wrong about the shedding of virus between vaccinated and unvaccinated. How is that virtue feeling? Will you answer my question now? Let me also be very clear here. It’s common sense that if a vaccine triggers antibodies that you shouldn’t get as sick as before if you get the same exact virus. I’m not arguing about that part of the vaccine. All I’m stating is mandating it was wrong, me getting it didn’t do anything for anyone else, it was only for myself. I felt I didn’t need it, I got covid, it wasn’t bad at all and I’m glad I didn’t get the shot.

Edited to add, yep I was wrong on polio. It took him 7 years to develop it.

 

[djdilliodon!]

I think more accurately some people on the left oversold the vaccine's efficacy. Many people both left and right were pumping the brakes right out the gate. The "partial immunity" narrative was being circulate prior to vax being approved. Additionally, it's inaccurate to say taking the vax for others does nothing for others; clearly if a vaxxed person doesn't contract Covid then he can't pass it along. If I'm less sick due to the vax, then I shed less virus, which benefits those around me. The flu and covid will always be with us because the virus infects other mammals so there is alway a reservoir of virus out there that we can't eliminate.

I’ll be the first to say that you I feel are right in the middle, that you tell it like it is honestly and that you don’t have true biased on one side or the other. I seen many of the tests on viral load of vaxed and not vaxed. Early test showed a small difference or a decent amount but the sampling was so small you can’t put it as gospel. The test i linked above was the largest sampling I could find and it determined there is no difference.

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

There is no such evidence in there.

Certainly a misleading headline. Kinda reminds me of (IIRC) Dr Campbells youtube videos. He never lies but he does present information in a way that the anti-vax crowd can run hog wild with it. Unfortunately, 1/2 the facts is more than enough for many people or in this case just the headline. I wouldn't be surprised if it was purposely worded that way so it could "go viral."

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

I’ll be the first to say that you I feel are right in the middle, that you tell it like it is honestly and that you don’t have true biased on one side or the other. I seen many of the tests on viral load of vaxed and not vaxed. Early test showed a small difference or a decent amount but the sampling was so small you can’t put it as gospel. The test i linked above was the largest sampling I could find and it determined there is no difference.

It's not so much that I'm in the middle. Politically, I'm more of Socialist Democrat (ie Netherlands, Denmark, etc). I don't care where people fall politically, that's a personal choice. What bothers me is the misinformation, disinformation, lies, half truths, etc. Decide what you want on the issues, but I just think those decisions should be based on facts. Unfortunately, most of the news networks barely qualify as news and usually function more like propaganda outlets. The internet is often worse than traditional media outlets.

Part of the issue with the data on Covid is you have the original variant, the delta variant and now the Omicron variant and the data is all mixed together. The Delta peak is one of the things that motivated me to get vaxxed. When Delta was kicking @$$ and taking names the data clearly indicated it was a good idea to be vaxxed (drastically lower hospitalization and death rates). OTOH, Omicron is quite effective at circumventing the vax, so we've gone from a highly effective vax to one that is marginally effective and the virus is no longer as dangerous as it once was.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

There is no such evidence in there.

Apparently you either didn't read it or skimmed for for talking points

 

[RobGMN 5,000+ posts]

Hmm…let’s use Rob clown logic here…if vaccines do stop the spread, and covid shots don’t stop the spread, then covid shots aren’t vaccines

‘DR. FAUCI: One of the things that's clear from the data [is] that even though vaccines - because of the high degree of transmissibility of this virus - don't protect overly well, as it were, against infection, they protect quite well against severe disease leading to hospitalization and death. And I believe that's the reason, Neil, why at my age, being vaccinated and boosted, even though it didn't protect me against infection, I feel confident that it made a major role in protecting me from progressing to severe disease….’

Fauci admits that COVID-19 vaccines do not protect 'overly well' against infection

White House chief medical adviser Dr. Anthony Fauci expounded on COVID-19 vaccines' efficacy and breakthrough COVID infections Tuesday on "Your World."

www.foxnews.com

Nahhh, let's use science instead. It makes much more sense than conspiracy theory, personal opinions, memes, Twitter posts, nonsensical ramblings of comedians/MMA fighters/politicians with no medical training/infotainment talking heads, etc.

If you REALLY think that vaccines have no effect on keeping a virus in check, then there is obviously no changing your mind.
You'll continue to share evidence that actually shows what vaccines are and how they work successfully, but you'll interpret that evidence as somehow saying it's all some ******** to control the world by the deep state lizard people.

I'd post historical data and info here, but you would undoubtedly retort with some idiocy about how the data is faked, or the source is controlled by the CDC, or Fauci traveled back in time to make it look like vaccines work, or some other such nonsense. Maybe include an article by a known-and-exposed fake-news conspiracy-laden website.

You're a one-trick pony. And for someone who sits in bed reading all day and claims he is so well-informed, you make it pretty obvious that you don't know squat.

 

[RobGMN 5,000+ posts]

Ok no problem https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...S-CoV-2-virions-even-if-COVID-vaccinated.aspx

Let me read again about polio cause it’s been a long time. My memory says that it took them over a decade to perfect it. If I got it wrong that is my bad. I know I’m not wrong about the shedding of virus between vaccinated and unvaccinated. How is that virtue feeling? Will you answer my question now? Let me also be very clear here. It’s common sense that if a vaccine triggers antibodies that you shouldn’t get as sick as before if you get the same exact virus. I’m not arguing about that part of the vaccine. All I’m stating is mandating it was wrong, me getting it didn’t do anything for anyone else, it was only for myself. I felt I didn’t need it, I got covid, it wasn’t bad at all and I’m glad I didn’t get the shot.

Edited to add, yep I was wrong on polio. It took him 7 years to develop it.

The study said that vaccinated people had lower shedding values than the unvaccinated.

But it also leaves out some additional facts about shedding that are very important to determining whether a vax helps reduce it:
1. The sicker a person is, the more they shed the virus. The vaccine has been proved to reduce the severity of illness, ergo vaccinated people do not get AS sick if they get it, so they shed less.
2. The test didn't take into account the severity of illness or the timeframe for the participants. It simply indicated they reported being sick.
3. The test doesn't account for the number of people that never contracted the virus at all because they are vaccinated. People who do not get infected do not shed the virus.

A while back, Jimi (I believe) shared the statistical data of how even small reductions in viral shedding and viral (?)load can have a large impact. It's basically the revers calculation of the old "She told two friends, and they told two friends, and soon, and so on..."
If you recall, there was a LOT of discussion in the early about keeping one's circle small in order to reduce the transmission. Whena vaccination helps a person not get the infection, it's similar results to keeping the circle small.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

‘“The CAF shirked its own purpose and rushed an untested product onto its members, mislabeled this experimental gene therapy a ‘vaccine,’ knowingly made false statements of safety and efficacy, and facilitated its mandate with no option to refuse except for mandatory permanent removal from service,” reads the statement of claim filed with the Federal Court on June 21.’

Over 300 Canadian Soldiers Launch $500 Million Lawsuit Against Military For COVID Vaccine Mandates | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

It's not so much that I'm in the middle. Politically, I'm more of Socialist Democrat (ie Netherlands, Denmark, etc). I don't care where people fall politically, that's a personal choice. What bothers me is the misinformation, disinformation, lies, half truths, etc. Decide what you want on the issues, but I just think those decisions should be based on facts. Unfortunately, most of the news networks barely qualify as news and usually function more like propaganda outlets. The internet is often worse than traditional media outlets.

Part of the issue with the data on Covid is you have the original variant, the delta variant and now the Omicron variant and the data is all mixed together. The Delta peak is one of the things that motivated me to get vaxxed. When Delta was kicking @$$ and taking names the data clearly indicated it was a good idea to be vaxxed (drastically lower hospitalization and death rates). OTOH, Omicron is quite effective at circumventing the vax, so we've gone from a highly effective vax to one that is marginally effective and the virus is no longer as dangerous as it once was.

The vaccines were never designed to protect against delta; the first vaccines and boosters all only targeted the original spike protein, that’s part of why vaccines didn’t work well. Literally people got like 3-4 shots of the same vaccine that only targeted the original virus, and that was part of the scam, because people were getting the shots thinking that they were going to be protected against variants. The only shot now that sort of is updated is the bivalent shot, but it’s the same problem as the flu shot; basically you have to be lucky enough to get sick with the targeted variant(s) or ot doesn’t work well. Many people correctly said at the beginning that you can’t effectively vaccinate against a Corona virus because the virus changes too rapidly; impossible to know which variants to vaccinate against, exactly. That’s exactly why there’s never been a cold vaccine. And your protection only last a few months at best. It’s just better to have natural immunity, which the “authorities” lied and said you can only get heard immunity from reaching mass vaccination.

Edit: props to your honesty about your beliefs, sir! I respect the honesty

 

[djdilliodon!]

The study said that vaccinated people had lower shedding values than the unvaccinated.

But it also leaves out some additional facts about shedding that are very important to determining whether a vax helps reduce it:
1. The sicker a person is, the more they shed the virus. The vaccine has been proved to reduce the severity of illness, ergo vaccinated people do not get AS sick if they get it, so they shed less.
2. The test didn't take into account the severity of illness or the timeframe for the participants. It simply indicated they reported being sick.
3. The test doesn't account for the number of people that never contracted the virus at all because they are vaccinated. People who do not get infected do not shed the virus.

A while back, Jimi (I believe) shared the statistical data of how even small reductions in viral shedding and viral (?)load can have a large impact. It's basically the revers calculation of the old "She told two friends, and they told two friends, and soon, and so on..."
If you recall, there was a LOT of discussion in the early about keeping one's circle small in order to reduce the transmission. Whena vaccination helps a person not get the infection, it's similar results to keeping the circle small.

I think you need to read again my friend. We all know the vaccine does nothing to prevent you from getting covid. Don’t wanna repeat myself on how in the start they said it would block it and then had to back track. We all know its purpose was to prevent death. This test clearly states there is no difference and that none pharmaceutical protocols are the best way to prevent infection and spread. Some quotes from what you supposedly read:

“Individuals infected with SARS-CoV-2 despite full vaccination have low Ct values and shed similar amounts of infectious virus as unvaccinated individuals”.

“We found no discernible correlation between Ct values in infected individuals and vaccination status. Irrespective of whether they had symptoms at the time of testing, vaccinated persons had low Ct values, with Ct values less than 25 being found in 65% of symptomatic unvaccinated individuals and in 70% of completely vaccinated symptomatic patients”.

That vaccine is for yourself. Let that virtue go, when a vaccine eradicates covid or the flu and you get both, you can get that virtue back. Even the CDC website says its purpose is to prevent the long term complications some people may experience or death. It does not say it’s to prevent the spread of covid or give you immunity from getting covid.

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

‘“The CAF shirked its own purpose and rushed an untested product onto its members, mislabeled this experimental gene therapy a ‘vaccine,’ knowingly made false statements of safety and efficacy, and facilitated its mandate with no option to refuse except for mandatory permanent removal from service,” reads the statement of claim filed with the Federal Court on June 21.’

Over 300 Canadian Soldiers Launch $500 Million Lawsuit Against Military For COVID Vaccine Mandates | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

I don't get the soldiers suing/bitching about the vax. We are constantly getting vaxxed and carry around experimental bio/chemical antidotes for use in case of bio/chemical warfare attack. That said IIRC the US Military is letting personnel who seperated over the vax to rejoin the military.

 

[RobGMN 5,000+ posts]

Apparently you either didn't read it or skimmed for for talking points

I read it. And it doesn't provide any evidence that vaccines do not stop the spread of a virus.

If you want to prove that claim, then show studies that prove vaccines are ineffective against controlling a virus.
Of course, you'll have to completely ignore the polio vax, because we say how that one worked out. We wouldn't want an oulier like that to ruin the theory. Facts just get in the way sometimes.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I read it. And it doesn't provide any evidence that vaccines do not stop the spread of a virus.

If you want to prove that claim, then show studies that prove vaccines are ineffective against controlling a virus.
Of course, you'll have to completely ignore the polio vax, because we say how that one worked out. We wouldn't want an oulier like that to ruin the theory. Facts just get in the way sometimes.

You can’t lump the polio vaccine in with mRNA covid shots; they work completely differently, different actual technology. You’re setting up a false premise, where if one says covid vaccines don’t stop the spread of covid, then no vaccines stop the spread of any virus. Covid vaccines didn’t stop the spread, because they don’t stop you from getting infected.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

‘For the first time in two decades, malaria infections have been confirmed in people who did not travel outside the United States…..Four people in Sarasota County, Fla., and one in Cameron County, Tex., were confirmed as having been infected between late May and late June through local transmission.’

MSN

‘‘The Bill Gates-backed biotech firm Oxitec is going ahead with plans to release hundreds of millions of gene-altered mosquitos in Florida…..’Oxitec — which announced a collaboration with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation in 2018 — says the new tests could help to greatly reduce populations of the mosquito breed, which is responsible for spreading diseases such as dengue and malaria.’

A Company Just Released 150K Genetically Modified Mosquitoes in the U.S.

The experiment tests a method for reducing populations of disease-spreading mosquitos.

interestingengineering.com