What is the loudest records holding subwoofer\subwoofers in size.

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

I took these pictures when I was bored at the 2006 DBdrag world finals //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

That is the inside of the Pioneer truck

Thats the back of Alan Dante's volvo....Alan was a nice guy, we BS'ed for a little while the first day when I was trying to hunt down Steve Miltion of Digital Designs that had my two Z1's...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif But anyways, most of his volvo is concrete, its not like he just has some 8th order bandpass sitting in the back of his car or something....you can jump on the roof of the volvo and its solid concrete.

 

[Jeremiah25 10+ year member]

Just out of curiosity, how much power do 2 or 4 DDZ2's output? I'm assuming it is at like 16 volts? Probably ran under .5 ohms? For a very short burp?
Also I'm curious, are any special precautions or modifications necessary to be able to burp single woofers with 20k, 30k+ watts, or can SPL competition subs handle that from factory?

The car runs an 18 volt system. With voltage drop the amp is likely to be seeing 16 volts during the burp. A Z2 will do 8000 watts unclipped at 16 volts and a 1 ohm reactive load. So the sub potentially had 32000 watts on it.

As far as your second question goes: that is a little hard to answer. There are a TON of factors that are involved in putting over 20000 watts to a single sub, and keeping the sub from failing. We were running 24000 watts a peice to our T3 TSNS 18's last year in SS 1-2. The subs themselves were stock. The install is the key factor to keeping the subs alive though. Trying to keep the sub from reaching it's mechanical limits with that much power on it is a nightmare. The subs have to stay linear, or coils will smack the top plate. The cone motion must be kept in check, without developing too much cone pressure, or the cone will fold, but if you don't develop enough cone pressure the sub can bottom out or tear the suspension. So to answer your question, yes some of the SPL subs can handle that much power from the factory, IF they are in the right install.

 

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

This is kind of off-topic, but I was looking at the IA website and noticed that one of the guys that holds some type of record using their products had a setup with 24 IA 40.1s. Unless I am mistaken, that is roughly 100,000 watts. I think it said he did something like 179 or 180db. I'm just trying to get my mind around that kind of number.... how many batteries would one need just to run those amps for a few seconds?

Sounds like you are talking about Scottie Johnson.

He isn't in the 180db range. But he consistantly does high 160s, which is more than competitve in his class.

here is his stats page. There are a few photos.

http://www.termpro.com/asp/competitorstats.asp?Competitor_ID=3192&Season=2007&Page=1

 

[Jeremiah25 10+ year member]

This is kind of off-topic, but I was looking at the IA website and noticed that one of the guys that holds some type of record using their products had a setup with 24 IA 40.1s. Unless I am mistaken, that is roughly 100,000 watts. I think it said he did something like 179 or 180db. I'm just trying to get my mind around that kind of number.... how many batteries would one need just to run those amps for a few seconds?

alot. We had 71 batteries in our SS 1-2 setup, running 8 memphis mojo 4kw's. The voltage would still drop from 18 volts down to 16 volts durring a 3 second burp.

 

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

The car runs an 18 volt system. With voltage drop the amp is likely to be seeing 16 volts during the burp. A Z2 will do 8000 watts unclipped at 16 volts and a 1 ohm reactive load. So the sub potentially had 32000 watts on it.
As far as your second question goes: that is a little hard to answer. There are a TON of factors that are involved in putting over 20000 watts to a single sub, and keeping the sub from failing. We were running 24000 watts a peice to our T3 TSNS 18's last year in SS 1-2. The subs themselves were stock. The install is the key factor to keeping the subs alive though. Trying to keep the sub from reaching it's mechanical limits with that much power on it is a nightmare. The subs have to stay linear, or coils will smack the top plate. The cone motion must be kept in check, without developing too much cone pressure, or the cone will fold, but if you don't develop enough cone pressure the sub can bottom out or tear the suspension. So to answer your question, yes some of the SPL subs can handle that much power from the factory, IF they are in the right install.

very true.

Sending a single driver in excess of 15kw is a task. The eclosure has to be perfect. Even sending a driver more than 5,000 watts can be challenging for someone doing it the first time.

 

[Buffalohed 10+ year member]

That just seems insane to me. I'm sure with more experience I would understand this better, but here is my question now. With 6 woofers and 24 amps (they say 200,000 watts on his profile???) and he hits a 169. How is a 180 possible? To me it seems like Scottie Johnson is already at the very upper limit of equipment, wattage, and woofers that is capable of fitting in a normal vehicle.

Thanks for the great information guys. I'm learning a lot //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

very true.
Sending a single driver in excess of 15kw is a task. The eclosure has to be perfect. Even sending a driver more than 5,000 watts can be challenging for someone doing it the first time.

Is there a particular formula for "perfect"? It seems car audio is very much a gray science where most of the results come from testing rather than mathematical models.

 

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

Is there a particular formula for "perfect"? It seems car audio is very much a gray science where most of the results come from testing rather than mathematical models.

No mathmatical equation can tell you whats going to be loudest. I have about 20 boxes in my garage...And they probably differ from each other by less than a 1 cube and they all pretty much use the same port(s) even though some of the designs were better suited to using shorter ports. Yet only one of them works nicely in my truck...

Of course im a streetclass competitor so my truck isnt as "modified" as the USACi Mod class/Super mod classes, or the Drag Street-max, Super Street, and Extreme.

The only thing that will help is a termlab. Best investment an SPL competitor can make.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

That just seems insane to me. I'm sure with more experience I would understand this better, but here is my question now. With 6 woofers and 24 amps (they say 200,000 watts on his profile???) and he hits a 169. How is a 180 possible? To me it seems like Scottie Johnson is already at the very upper limit of equipment, wattage, and woofers that is capable of fitting in a normal vehicle.
Thanks for the great information guys. I'm learning a lot //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

The materials used in the vehicle-concept from what I would suppose. Scottie's van is something you can actually drive around and Steve Cook (another competitor) has a really nice paint scheme to go with his van. It seems like their vehicles are bit more "streetable".

When I saw the vehciles in the extreme class, they looked more like vehicles battling IEDs in Iraq. Very thick plexiglass, no seats, and the interior was not functional. The interior's only purpose was to faciliate sound pressure capacity. Vehicles were transported by pushing rather than driving.

I would say it is the difference between a modified street car and an ethanol based funny car. It's hard to compare because the theme and class of the car are different.

A little //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif on my background. I have never competed and am only a spectator.

 

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

Kinda give you an example.

One box with nothing on the inside no resin, no angles, just external ports and the sub...will cause the cone to go crazy, it builds wild pressure behind the sub which isn't good ( I think at one point I threw the TL in the box behind the sub and it was doing high 165s with a single W3v2 JL audio sub and less than 1000 watts, Just to give you an Idea what kind of pressure it was building in there. It can cause plastic cones (SoloX) to crack/break, or paper cones to fold (MT/DD 95s)...but If I put 1 45 degree angle in the box...it gets about 1.2-1.4 dB louder and the cone stays controled in the gap.

Just takes testing.

 

[Jeremiah25 10+ year member]

The difference in score comes from the differences in the vehicles. Scotty's van is in the Super Street division, whereas Alan's car is in the Extreme division. Basically the interior of the vehicle in front of the B pillar must be stock in the Super Street division, with a few exceptions, like the seats may be removed, and you can apply a limited amount of sound deadening. The glass and sheet metal must be stock though.

In the extreme division, there is nothing stock about the interior of the vehicle. The floors are raised, and usually layed with concrete or grout. The doors are filled with concrete or grout. The roof is built down, and filled with concrete. All the glass has been removed and replaced with plexiglass that is several inches thick.

So imagine setting off a fire cracker in a thin metal tin box, then setting off a fire cracker in a thick concrete box. Which would develop more pressure on the inside? That should answer your question.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Kinda give you an example.
One box with nothing on the inside no resin, no angles, just external ports and the sub...will cause the cone to go crazy, it builds wild pressure behind the sub which isn't good ( I think at one point I threw the TL in the box behind the sub and it was doing high 165s with a single W3v2 JL audio sub and less than 1000 watts, Just to give you an Idea what kind of pressure it was building in there. It can cause plastic cones (SoloX) to crack/break, or paper cones to fold (MT/DD 95s)...but If I put 1 45 degree angle in the box...it gets about 1.2-1.4 dB louder and the cone stays controled in the gap.

Just takes testing.

Why don't they make cones with the ability to flex? A weave of sorts....

Yes, I know this has already been thought of. I am now curious why it fails.

 

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

Breaking/Folding cones isn't the only issue. Keeping the coil under control is a huge part of it to. and when the cone is being forced in wierd driections it causes the coil to rock in the gap.

I wish I could find my cameral...i have a folded MT cone here at the house I coudl show...but no camera //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 

[Buffalohed 10+ year member]

We need more threads with info this good //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

But yeah that makes a lot of sense. I think the "extreme" vehicles are ridiculous, and yeah they look like armored troop carriers more than actual cars/trucks. I mean, the smaller and sturdier the space you are trying to pressurize with sound the less displacement it takes. To me, it crosses over from "car audio" to something else when you basically just have a thick metal box and the goal is to have as little air space as possible inside it. When you get to that point, why not just have a "metal box audio" competition, and just have people wheel up pressurized metal globes and throw a sensor in there to see how loud it gets.

 

[Buffalohed 10+ year member]

I hear people talk about how Astros and WRXs are the loudest vehicles or whatever. Why not just get one of those deep sea exploration submarines and throw some subs in there. I bet it would be louder than an astrovan //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif