What is the difference between 12" subs and 15" subs?

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

here you go again...
yeah instead of calling a speaker cone "a cone" i could call it an "oblique cylinder" but who gives a flying fvck?

my arguement was very simple to understand and quite concise, i actually wrote it on your "6th" grade level that you said you were on...

there was no exotic ideas or any of that bullsht...

i very simply stated that larger piston area subs in the same line (without an exception that i'm aware of) allways perform better

maby you didn't have a better responce than to go back to the multi sized setup, which has been gone almost a year now, or the $8000 italian chip bahaha

Please, just stop. You're only lowering the mean forum IQ level now.

 

[tsenfw 10+ year member]

Ok, I do not have the time to read this whole thread of overanalysis. In the simplest terms possible, can someone explain if 15's of the same model are generally better than 12's and why?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

here you go again...
yeah instead of calling a speaker cone "a cone" i could call it an "oblique cylinder" but who gives a flying fvck?

my arguement was very simple to understand and quite concise, i actually wrote it on your "6th" grade level that you said you were on...

Oh, so you actually would have just said enclosure alignment, but you decided you needed to talk down to me? Lets look at what you said again:
"the only way to really compare subs is to put them in their recommended optimum enclosures of the same type... (not the same enclosure... thats retarded) but same type (IE: sealed and sealed, or ported and ported)"

Does that sound like someone dumbing it down, or does it sound like someone struggling to convey their meaning because they dont know the proper term? I think its obvious, Im sure others will too. Again, you refuse to admit when you are full of shit. The sign of self confidence issues. Its okay to be wrong, and to be a noob Cot, embrace it.

actually i MENT idiocracy which would mean by root word meaning "a system of authority by idiots"

Odd, neither dictionary.com nor wikipedia (nor any other online source Ive checked) offer that definition, or anything resembling it. They all offer the same definition: Peculiarity of constitution; that temperament, or state of constitution, which is peculiar to a person; idiosyncrasy. So again, you cannot offer a coherant arguement, nor admit you were simply wrong. Detecting a pettern yet brain boy?

and actually idiocrasy IS a word

Sure it is, an alternate spelling of idiocracy, which is also defined differently than you claim. Want to try again, or just settle on idiocy? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[hoss 5,000+ posts]

cotjones, you also didnt use the word "ment" correctly. perhaps you meant to use the word meant //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

also, you are an idiot who should learn when to quit... otherwise, you are going to need a much larger shovel.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

Okay, let's see what I can do to end this thread since I was once a cotjones/Foote myself. I'll go about it in two parts:

1. I agree with foote and cotjones. A 15" RE SE will get louder and lower than a 12" RE SE with enough power to push them both properly and have them both in their respective ideal enclosures and vehicle setups.

2. If I actually thought that was the end of it, I would be retarded. Cot, what you and foote are arguing is technically true, but you're making causation from correlation. A speaker's cone size does NOT determine how well it does. If you take two speakers, same make, model, but different size, put the 12 in a box with X amount of power then put the 15 in the same box with same power, there is a very good chance the 12 will outperform the 15. Point in fact: I have an 8" Dayton HF sub, a 12" Dayton HF sub and a 15" Dayton HF sub. I feed the 8" guy about 150 watts and it can shake my walls. I feed the 12" guy about 220-250 to get that much output, and it takes the 15" about 300-350 to get the same amount of output. Therefore in this situation, the 8" would be the "best" by your definition because it takes the least amount of power to get X amount of output.

However, that's not what you do with speakers, although it is what I assume to be the basis of this thread. If you have a 300 watt amplifier and can only run one sub, the 10" sub from X company will probably be louder than the 15" as the larger diameter speakers USUALLY have higher power handling capabilities, and almost always have larger, and sometimes impractical enclosure requirements. (don't get me started on how that's determined, that's another thread. The trends are all over the place in most manufacturers if you want to look it up). Even this is a generalization, but the point that the OP wants to learn is that even if you can afford a larger subwoofer, it won't necessarily be louder as there are far too many factors to consider besides just cone area, which is exactly what you and foote are arguing ONLY about.

Did that help, or just make things worse?

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Did that help, or just make things worse?

well you agreed with me so that makes you an asshat

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Oh, so you actually would have just said enclosure alignment, but you decided you needed to talk down to me? Lets look at what you said again:
"the only way to really compare subs is to put them in their recommended optimum enclosures of the same type... (not the same enclosure... thats retarded) but same type (IE: sealed and sealed, or ported and ported)"

Does that sound like someone dumbing it down, or does it sound like someone struggling to convey their meaning because they dont know the proper term? I think its obvious, Im sure others will too. Again, you refuse to admit when you are full of shit. The sign of self confidence issues. Its okay to be wrong, and to be a noob Cot, embrace it.

Odd, neither dictionary.com nor wikipedia (nor any other online source Ive checked) offer that definition, or anything resembling it. They all offer the same definition: Peculiarity of constitution; that temperament, or state of constitution, which is peculiar to a person; idiosyncrasy. So again, you cannot offer a coherant arguement, nor admit you were simply wrong. Detecting a pettern yet brain boy?

Sure it is, an alternate spelling of idiocracy, which is also defined differently than you claim. Want to try again, or just settle on idiocy? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

who cares what way i chose to say something or how i spelled it?

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

2. If I actually thought that was the end of it, I would be retarded. Cot, what you and foote are arguing is technically true, but you're making causation from correlation. A speaker's cone size does NOT determine how well it does. If you take two speakers, same make, model, but different size, put the 12 in a box with X amount of power then put the 15 in the same box with same power, there is a very good chance the 12 will outperform the 15. Point in fact: I have an 8" Dayton HF sub, a 12" Dayton HF sub and a 15" Dayton HF sub. I feed the 8" guy about 150 watts and it can shake my walls. I feed the 12" guy about 220-250 to get that much output, and it takes the 15" about 300-350 to get the same amount of output. Therefore in this situation, the 8" would be the "best" by your definition because it takes the least amount of power to get X amount of output.

Did that help, or just make things worse?

that is the end of it...

if the motors are the same, then the larger sub will win in output with the same power, if the motors are different then you have to give the bigger motor more power.

power handling doesn't really have a direct relation to output the inductance, resistance, compliance, and a few other factors must also be considered

IE; one sub can be just as loud with 500 watts as another with 1000

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

You're only lowering the mean forum IQ level now.

maby thats wat you need, if the forum can't understand such a simple fact

unless for some reason:

the manufacturer of a line gave a bigger coned sub a weaker motor, or

they desided to make the suurround of the bigger subs WAY stiffer or some weirdness that would be almost unheard of...

unless they did one of those things, then if you buy a 15 and a 12 in the same line, and power them according to recommendation, there is absolutely NO good reason for the 12 to be louder than the 15...

plain and simple, end of story...

any arguement you can give to discredit this FACT would be either a reckless attempt at allways being right and saving face...

or a very rare counter-example (QED: i found a blue rock... so that means all rocks must be blue)

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

that is the end of it...if the motors are the same, then the larger sub will win in output with the same power, if the motors are different then you have to give the bigger motor more power.

power handling doesn't really have a direct relation to output the inductance, resistance, compliance, and a few other factors must also be considered

IE; one sub can be just as loud with 500 watts as another with 1000

No, no, no, no, NO. Stop and listen, and stop generalizing. This is not always true, so it therefore cannot be stated as fact. I know of many examples (including drivers I've custom made myself), where the same motor with a larger speaker will not = more power. Again, you must take into account far more factors besides just the cone size.
And by power handling, I am referring to the values given by the manufacturer as recommended power input, although I know that you know that's what I'm talking about.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

maby thats wat you need, if the forum can't understand such a simple fact
unless for some reason:

the manufacturer of a line gave a bigger coned sub a weaker motor, or

they desided to make the suurround of the bigger subs WAY stiffer or some weirdness that would be almost unheard of...

unless they did one of those things, then if you buy a 15 and a 12 in the same line, and power them according to recommendation, there is absolutely NO good reason for the 12 to be louder than the 15...

plain and simple, end of story...

any arguement you can give to discredit this FACT would be either a reckless attempt at allways being right and saving face...

or a very rare counter-example (QED: i found a blue rock... so that means all rocks must be blue)

But when you consider that we use these transducers in REALITY, you can't generalize. A 12" RL-P is very happy in 2 cubes, which will fit in most cars, while a 15" RL-P's 3.5-4.5 cube enclosure most likely won't. If you sacrifice and put the 15 in a box over 2x smaller than it wants, you'd get a rude awakening. You keep changing your argument and backpeddling, so there's no point in arguing about something that can change as you see fit.

 

[Jdizzle 10+ year member]

**** lemans....in the 2 years ive been here this is the first time i've seen anything like this come from you...GJ man

(j/k with you)

 

[BEAVER.989 10+ year member]

When did something so simple become so complicated?

Are we all crazy?

I haven't been a part of this madness, but can't help but feel a little silly for reading it all.

 

[ultimate157 5,000+ posts]

2. If I actually thought that was the end of it, I would be retarded. Cot, what you and foote are arguing is technically true, but you're making causation from correlation. A speaker's cone size does NOT determine how well it does. If you take two speakers, same make, model, but different size, put the 12 in a box with X amount of power then put the 15 in the same box with same power, there is a very good chance the 12 will outperform the 15. Point in fact: I have an 8" Dayton HF sub, a 12" Dayton HF sub and a 15" Dayton HF sub. I feed the 8" guy about 150 watts and it can shake my walls. I feed the 12" guy about 220-250 to get that much output, and it takes the 15" about 300-350 to get the same amount of output. Therefore in this situation, the 8" would be the "best" by your definition because it takes the least amount of power to get X amount of output.

that is the end of it...if the motors are the same, then the larger sub will win in output with the same power, if the motors are different then you have to give the bigger motor more power.

power handling doesn't really have a direct relation to output the inductance, resistance, compliance, and a few other factors must also be considered

IE; one sub can be just as loud with 500 watts as another with 1000

Are you dyslexic, or just plain STUPID? He clearly stated that for the same line woofer (In this case the Dayton HF series) it took over 2x the power (to the 15") to have the same output that 8" achieved.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Cot is too busy running his mouth to listen. If you chose to continue with him, do so for your own amusement. .