Want to know the truth behind audiophiles? I will explain!

[60ndown 10+ year member]

im with the crew that thinks its stupid the amount of cash some poeople spend on audio, after a couple grand it doesnt get any better, its just that your more stupid.

 

[60ndown 10+ year member]

The people making advances in loudspeaker technology aren't the guys building the speakers that look cool, but the ones in the garage testing out things that may not look great, but sure as hell sound better.

http://www.decware.com

 

[desertheat 10+ year member]

Personally if I was to go retail, IMO speakers in the $3-5K range are some of the best of the best for people who really love music. Past this point you are paying for a lot of BS, marketing and fancy cabs. Now there are a few exceptions but not many. Past this point, things start to make no sense, price goes to insane levels and performance is not generally improved much. Now this is not the final word that $3-5K is the cut off, but I have heard enough crap past this point to know I will NEVER pay more than this for a good designed set of speakers if I had that sort of money for my hobby..

This is why I prefere DIY as I will never pay that much for a pair of speakers and will only build a DIY project if was tested, measured and proven by a reputable designer. And of course I value individual reviews of the design that people build, try to find a local set to audition or just build them and if I do not like them... then well off for sale they go.

The downside to DIY is that many that attempt to build a speaker cannot cut a straight line, use a beaver to cut out speaker holes, do not know the difference between a cap or a resistor, usually f-up the design adding in there own "improvments" that the original designer did not intend which screws it all up and in the end they have a peice of crap that they go onto a forum and cry about which gives DIY a bad name.

On the otherhand if you know what your doing, have decent skills in woodwork, electronics and FOLLOW a design to the absolute letter then just mabey you will end up spending $400-$1000 on a set of speakers that will outperform anything costing 4-10x more cash.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

It's called business. If people will buy it then someone will sell it. But I disagree with your attitude towards audio R&D. While many companies simply build upon what has been uncovered so far, obviously there has been plenty of technological progress over the years that has been funded by some kind of financial incentive. Hell even BOSE can be considered innovative in many respects, even if their products are ridiculously overpriced. To be fair, and I'm speaking as a DIY'er myself, most DIY'ers copy the companies instead of the other way around. They just do it for cheaper.

http://www.decware.com

Different technology ~= innovation. What I'm saying is that it's pretty much well known how to get the best sound out of a speaker in theory. You know what you need to do, how to make it sound the best, and how to closely match the recorded signal as close as possible. Now, most of these audiophiles companies have the knowledge and can only put forth their ridiculous technologies because they assume they're better. If they were actually discovering new shit, it'd be different. However, using a different material to make a different sound isn't making the objective sound quality greater. That's been taken care of long ago. It just depends on how much you want to believe that $50,000 speakers can do that. My opinion, of course.

 

[desertheat 10+ year member]

I bet Zaphs top end design can beat up his top end design haha.

http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html

 

[Audio Junkies 10+ year member]

You seen Zaph's new ZDT3's?

http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.html

Pretty **** tempting for how inexpensive they are, I may just have to build a pair.

 

[iagrdshaka 5,000+ posts]

pfft!!!

 

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

Some random thoughts;

1. Zaph's opinions are based on driver tests, not subjective tests.

The Dayton RS series drivers hold a unique ratio of price to performance. While their performance does not approach European high-end drivers, it's not too far off and the price is a mere fraction.

These type of comments lead people to build the same designs over and over again in

cyber and they never explore other drivers.

For example,

"performance does not approach European high-end drivers"= could be true

"it's not too far off and the price is a mere fraction." = could be true

Or this can be way off in judgement.

The application plays a role in determining if the drivers are suitable. If you look at his

tests, some comments tell you to use the driver in a specific bandpass to get it to work

well. Duh.. what if I found a better driver what has a wider bandpass in spite that it

cost more? In that case for that design, the expensive driver can rule.

Zaph doesn't test for maximum SPL using a reference acceptible distortion level. What

about thermal power handling tests? There is more to driver tests than feeding it

1 watt and charting some data. People take these tests to heart way too much. They

are just guidelines to filter out the really bad drivers from the good ones. Others see

this as a precision test, I see it as s crud 'estimate' test because there is other tests that

aren't done.

2. People ask me 'if you know so much about this, why don't you start you own audio business' ? ... lol ....

a. Technically, I did have two audio businesses, but they were home businesses for fun

to try to make some pocket cash, to learn more about 'stuff', etc. Business is not my bag baby [Austin Powers]. I don't know everything about everything.... lol ... common sense

is your ally. Everyone can figure this stuff out.

... to continue.. Lets say hypothetically I wanted to enter the home audio market with

a speaker design that I would love to show off. It would be a floor standing tower,

3 way design. The subwoofer wouldn't be included.

Lets figure out how much it cost *you* for drivers in low quantity orders because these

speakers could be made to order - to keep your business model lean.

Cost for two speakers;

1. Tweeter cost: $1400

2. Midange cost: $300

3. Woofer cost: $500 - $1000 [uber woofer = $1000/pair]

Crossover parts: Lets use good parts, lets figure out $200.

Crossover PCB: You need to invest a few grand to have custom PCB's made, but

lets say $25.

So far, about $3000 just for drivers and crossovers.

How much is wood for this project? Depends, what type of wood, how exotic ? Lets

budget $500.

How much labor to make this? You hire a woodcrafter and he tells you he wants $25/hr

labor, 2 weeks full time to make this. $2000.

You are at $5500 in costs.

How much profit do you want for all your trouble ? Geeez... I want to make some decent

cash. I wouldn't mind making $5k profit for every pair of speakers sold.

Total cost $10,500

Dealer model: Your cost times two = MSRP

MSRP = $2099.99 //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

You walk in the store and way ' WTF ' $21k for speakers? The salesman lets you talk

them down to $16k/pair.

I make $5k profit, the dealer made $5.5k profit.

Keep in mind, speakers that cost $20k in the store won't have the level of

quality as this recipe I just mentioned, not even close. If I were to find a speaker

like this in the store, it would be in the $40k range easy.

/crazy/

That's why you see $1 tweeters in Klipsch, Polk, etc., low cost mainstream audio.

3. Retarted -> http://www.createforum.com/petereuro/viewtopic.php?t=269&mforum=petereuro