Underground Hip Pop

[gl0ck 10+ year member]

I just listened to that immortal technique and i like it.

 

[Brock 5,000+ posts]

When Rakim made his triumphant return to the New York stage a few months back, the stage was so crowded with admirers-- everyone from Kool Herc to random nobodies-- that the man himself was barely visible. Off to the left of the stage, a naggingly familiar figure in a bright-orange jacket struck poses. "Kool Keith in the house!" Rakim yelled, and it was like: Oh, right, Kool Keith is a rapper.

Keith isn't doing much rapping these days. On The Return of Dr. Octagon, he's mostly ranting beatnik spoken-word stuff about aliens and Richard Gere and trees going extinct. It's getting more difficult to remember the fact that back in the 1980s this guy was one of the first to weave surrealist gobbledygook into old-school boast-rapping, and that he changed underground rap forever with the first Dr. Octagon album by abandoning any connection to the genre's concrete-narrative roots.

The difference is that both Critical Beatdown and Dr. Octagonecologyst were both rap albums. The Return of Dr. Octagonis something else entirely. Case in point: "A Gorilla Driving a Pick-Up Truck", wherein Keith mumbles about a primate motorist in a fake dusty-cowboy voice over eerie slide guitars and harmonicas: "I was moving fast/ He got up in front/ The gorilla looked at me and passed/ He was on my ***." It could be a Buck 65 parody, but after a few listens, it starts to sound like the work of another black man with O.G. outsider-artist ranter-status and a white fanbase whose giggly appreciation never moves too far from look-at-this condescension: Wesley Willis. Of course, Willis's mental problems were well-documented, while Keith's are just a rumor. But it's still a little troubling to hear Keith leave rap alone and get completely unhinged ("Get off the ship and walk to mother****ing 42nd Street like a mother****ing sailor"). It's like Keith has realized that a huge chunk of his fanbase could really give a **** about rap, that they just want to hear the funny weird black guy say funny weird stuff. It may be a shrewd move on Keith's part, but it makes for an oddly deflating listen.

There's a world of difference between Dr. Octagonecologyst and The Return, and most of the divide comes from the production. On the first LP, Keith's lyrical insanity was balanced out by the RZA-esque sensibility of Dan the Automater, who anchored Keith in hip-hop without tying him down to it. On The Return, the Germany-based production trio One Watt Sun replaces Automator and abandons his minor-key synth zooms and damaged piano-rolls for brittle, artificial electro and kitchen-sink eclecticism. It's not all bad; "Trees" has a nice synth-bounce, and "Al Green" rests on an itchy, jumpy disco bassline. But more often than not they lean way too hard on obnoxious blurting keyboards and tinkly lounge-jazz pianos, and so we mostly get Keith ranting over halfassed IDM.

On a couple of songs, they chop up Keith's vocals into word-fragments, unfathomably using the album's longest track to showcase the nonexistent skills of Princess Superstar, who I didn't even realize was still trying to rap. The Return is supposedly a Kool Keith album, but four of the 14 tracks are skits, two mangle his vocals so the producers can show off their DJing, and one is a Princess Superstar song with Keith on the hook.

Keith himself is responsible for all of the album's good moments. Even when he's in unhinged-rant mode, Keith's imagery often remains lucid. And so the album's best song is "Ants", where he comes off frantic but omnipotent, comparing the humans infesting Earth to ants in a colony, enthused and disgusted at once: "Ants work together, jerk together, do concerts together, cry and get hurt together." It's dense and fascinating stuff, a tantalizing glimpse of what might've happened if Keith hadn't treated the reemergence of his most popular persona like an easy payday.

-Tom Breihan, June 28, 2006

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[RumbleNTheTrunk 10+ year member]

those have to be some of the strangest titles for an album.

 

[ndnbolla 10+ year member]

I am pretty sure that Dead Prez is not underground any more but they aren't too popular either.

I heard some of their stuff on Chapelle's Block Party which finally came On Demand and I have to say they are pretty **** good.

"The White House is the Rock House..."

 

[LIGHTBEING 10+ year member]

Brock,

Actually you said he has virtually no content, meaning his lyrics are boring. Which is a diss from my perspective. Being uplifting has no relevence to having content.

It doesn't matter if you don't like him, I wasn't arguing that point in the slightest. My angle was that he has plenty of content, more than most. And he is original. And I'll throw in something else in. His Mic presence superior IMO.

I don't have a problem with people having opinions. Music is subjective. It's all up to your preference. That's why I stated he was kinda murder/horror rap from the beginning.

 

[Brock 5,000+ posts]

Brock,
Actually you said he has virtually no content, meaning his lyrics are boring. Which is a diss from my perspective. Being uplifting has no relevence to having content.

It doesn't matter if you don't like him, I wasn't arguing that point in the slightest. My angle was that he has plenty of content, more than most. And he is original. And I'll throw in something else in. His Mic presence superior IMO.

I don't have a problem with people having opinions. Music is subjective. It's all up to your preference. That's why I stated he was kinda murder/horror rap from the beginning.

content = worth listening to

you think rants about gore are content, i don't. i think its childish.

/end discussion

 

[Brock 5,000+ posts]

I am pretty sure that Dead Prez is not underground any more but they aren't too popular either.
I heard some of their stuff on Chapelle's Block Party which finally came On Demand and I have to say they are pretty **** good.

"The White House is the Rock House..."

HIT ME...DUH!

lol

 

[LIGHTBEING 10+ year member]

content = worth listening to
you think rants about gore are content, i don't. i think its childish.

/end discussion

wrong

content = the subject matter or symbolic significance of something, the amount of specified material contained.

It doesn't matter if you like it or agree with it, there is still plenty of content in his songs whether it's good, bad , or indifferent from your point of view.

example: I would be incorrect in saying the chick flick Monsoon Wedding has virtually no content but I could have my opinion about the movie and say it sucks

end discussion //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[LIGHTBEING 10+ year member]

One other thing Brock,

Would you classify horror movies, childish? Think before you answer.

 

[Brock 5,000+ posts]

wrong
content = the subject matter or symbolic significance of something, the amount of specified material contained.

It doesn't matter if you like it or agree with it, there is still plenty of content in his songs whether it's good, bad , or indifferent from your point of view.

example: I would be incorrect in saying the chick flick Monsoon Wedding has virtually no content but I could have my opinion about the movie and say it sucks

end discussion //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

by that definition, everything has content so what is there to differentiate young jock from mos def...or city of god from napoleon dynamite? the term 'content' and its exact meaning in this case is subject to the context it was used in. we can argue all day about the definiton of a word, and as far as that goes, you're right...but then again, words arent always used directly as the first definition in a dictionary states it should be. that is why there are multiple definitions for the term 'content' the latter stating (a)The meaning or significance of a literary or artistic work and (b) The substantive or meaningful part. Its language, don't take it too serious...you knew what I meant from the beginning.

 

[LIGHTBEING 10+ year member]

by that definition, everything has content so what is there to differentiate young jock from mos def...or city of god from napoleon dynamite? the term 'content' and its exact meaning in this case is subject to the context it was used in. we can argue all day about the definiton of a word, and as far as that goes, you're right...but then again, words arent always used directly as the first definition in a dictionary states it should be. that is why there are multiple definitions for the term 'content' the latter stating (a)The meaning or significance of a literary or artistic work and (b) The substantive or meaningful part. Its language, don't take it too serious...you knew what I meant from the beginning.

There are a ton of components that makes an artist talented. Content or the subject matter would happen to be one of them.

And no, for future reference, when you say that an artist has virtually no content it means his lyrics are sub par or boring, not that you dislike his subject matter.

 

[Brock 5,000+ posts]

And no, for future reference, when you say that an artist has virtually no content it means his lyrics are sub par or boring, not that you dislike his subject matter.

I would agree to both. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

 

[LIGHTBEING 10+ year member]

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[Brock 5,000+ posts]

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so what other 'artists' do you like that i probably wont like?

lol

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[LIGHTBEING 10+ year member]

Hahaha

Phoenix Orion? He's uplifting but can talk about some far out space Alien type shit. Most of the stuff I listen to most people won't like and that just makes me like it more.....LOL