Under Powered Sub ?!

[pioneer 10+ year member]

hey guys...today i bought my orion cobalt sub...its rated at 200W rms

i am using a PPI 120W rms into one channel amp

when i tol the guy at the shop what amp i am using...he laughed at me telling me that pretty soon i will need another sub becuase it is being under powered

is this true ?

would it sound good and should i go back and prove him wrong ?

i plan to use a ported box 1.5 cubic foot

Click to read more...

 

[SKMexiFry 10+ year member]

The sub will last you quite a while with that watt range, just don't max out the gains on the HU or amp, and don't max out the Bass Boost either.

 

[Mark_ab 5,000+ posts]

You cannot underpower a subwoofer. You damage it through having the gain set incorrectly. You can laugh back at him

 

[kottonmouth 10+ year member]

dont turn ur bass level and boost on ur amp up cuz it will create clipping when turned up. and then u will need a new woofer. otherwise the sub i sfine

 

[pioneer 10+ year member]

hey thanks....but how do i set the gains properly ?

how will i know when the sub begins to distort ?

thanks

another guy at the shop said the amp might give 160W since its a PPI

is that true ?

 

[wesleysh 10+ year member]

The thing about the PPI is true. Some companies rate their amps correctly, some overrate and some underrate. That's part of the reason why you can find a Jensen amp with 2-4 times the rated wattage of your PPI for like half the price, lol.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif The Jensen won't actually put out what its said to, while a PPI will put out more. Rockfords another good company for getting more than the rated wattage from.

My PPI is putting out more than what my L7's can handle, and rating wise it should actually be falling just short.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[97cavy 10+ year member]

I just got my first system. I have 2 kappa perfect 12''s, and im only runnin it with a zapco ag 350. I usually drive around with the gains on the amp at about 1/3. It sounds loud enough for me, but will this damage my subs???

 

[bumpin_blazer 5,000+ posts]

hey does anyone know if MA audio's new 1500 watt class X amps are underated and are they good or not? my friend just sold me one for 300 bucks new but he got it on accomidation from the company that's why i got it so cheap. you think that amp is better than my RF 1000bd??

keep it thumpin,

adam

 

[wesleysh 10+ year member]

97cavy,

Underpowering speakers is the most damaging thing you can do. The question you need to ask yourself is this, are you giving the speaker enough juice to function properly? Whether you give it enough juice to operate to its fullest potential is up to you. I need close to 600w each for my Kickers to operate at their best. But I would feel comfortable going all the way down to 100-125w each without actually hurting the sub. They'll just sound like doodoo. With amps such as JBL600.1's and JBL1200.1's selling for less than $300, there's really no excuse for underpowering a sub. I'm actually thinking about investing in a couple of those 1200.1's. Just to have them around, either for me or my friends. Just too good a deal, ya know.

Don't let subs rms power handling get you confused. That figure is usually at the top of the range. Like a Kicker comp sub. Rms power handling is 150w. But its said to be secure 30-150w rms. As a rule you should not use an amp rated at less than 2/3 the peak rms figure to make the sub perform near its best, but you'll be ok with less than half as you can see.

Hope this helps.

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Originally posted by wesleysh 97cavy,

Underpowering speakers is the most damaging thing you can do.

Really? Why?

Originally posted by wesleysh The question you need to ask yourself is this, are you giving the speaker enough juice to function properly?

Any sub can perform accurately with 50w... some won't even need that much.

Originally posted by wesleysh But I would feel comfortable going all the way down to 100-125w each without actually hurting the sub. They'll just sound like doodoo.

No they don't, they sound perfectly fine. They don't get loud enough for you is all. You could throw 20 watts into them and never 'hurt' them.

Originally posted by wesleysh With amps such as JBL600.1's and JBL1200.1's selling for less than $300, there's really no excuse for underpowering a sub.

And there really is no excuse to send 1200w into everything either... And you are not underpowering a sub, you are overdriving your amplifier. Your sub is fine...

Originally posted by wesleysh Don't let subs rms power handling get you confused. That figure is usually at the top of the range.

It is the top of the range. That is the thermal or mechanical limit of the subwoofer, in whatever way the manufacturer chose to rate it. However they did their test, they decided that was the safe threshold of power input for that particular driver.

Originally posted by wesleysh

Like a Kicker comp sub. Rms power handling is 150w. But its said to be secure 30-150w rms. As a rule you should not use an amp rated at less than 2/3 the peak rms figure to make the sub perform near its best, but you'll be ok with less than half as you can see.

Hope this helps.

I've sent 300w into a brahma rated at 1600... and it sounds simply amazing... I find that rule flawed...

 

[wesleysh 10+ year member]

jlaine,

I'm not understanding exactly what you are trying to do or say here. I don't think this is the forum for you if you are like that, maybe you should go somewhere else. I've hooked my subs up by touching the wires to the my $50 boomboxes speaker inputs, so what's your point?

We are not discussing the realm of possibility here. These are people who want good sound from their car audio and not damage anything. Running your Brahma's down at 300 watts is your business.

Nobody said anything about throwing 1200 watts into all your subs. Their are so many possibilities with either one of those amps. You can run a sub down at 75w very easily with one of the JBL's, so again what's your point?

If you want to run 100w into an L7, that's your business. But I'll stick to my 500w+ thank you.

I said AS A RULE you should power it at 2/3 or above. It doesn't mean its always the case and there's no way to deviate. But are you saying that you can not improve the sound of your Brahma's if you ran more power into them? Better go tell everyone they are wasting their money on the bigger amps, all they need is 18% of its top rms figure, anything else is a waste of money. We are not saying you can't get good ABSOLUTE sound, we are talking RELATIVE. Which is why relatively my L7's would and have been proven to sound like doodoo with a small amp. If they were Pyramid subs I would have said, "cool, that sounds pretty nice." But Kickers and Pyramid's aren't the same price now are they?

 

[bigbassman Premium Member]

Originally posted by wesleysh jlaine,

I'm not understanding exactly what you are trying to do or say here. I don't think this is the forum for you if you are like that, maybe you should go somewhere else. I've hooked my subs up by touching the wires to the my $50 boomboxes speaker inputs, so what's your point?

We are not discussing the realm of possibility here. These are people who want good sound from their car audio and not damage anything. Running your Brahma's down at 300 watts is your business.

Nobody said anything about throwing 1200 watts into all your subs. Their are so many possibilities with either one of those amps. You can run a sub down at 75w very easily with one of the JBL's, so again what's your point?

If you want to run 100w into an L7, that's your business. But I'll stick to my 500w+ thank you.

I said AS A RULE you should power it at 2/3 or above. It doesn't mean its always the case and there's no way to deviate. But are you saying that you can not improve the sound of your Brahma's if you ran more power into them? Better go tell everyone they are wasting their money on the bigger amps, all they need is 18% of its top rms figure, anything else is a waste of money. We are not saying you can't get good ABSOLUTE sound, we are talking RELATIVE. Which is why relatively my L7's would and have been proven to sound like doodoo with a small amp. If they were Pyramid subs I would have said, "cool, that sounds pretty nice." But Kickers and Pyramid's aren't the same price now are they?

Speakers do not sound like "doo doo" because of the low power given to them.. they sound like "doo doo" because you're cranking the gain in an attempt to make up for the lack of power...

There is no difference between a 10 watt sine.. and a 500 watt sine, other than an increase potential to do more "work" A woofer will not have more linearity, less distortion, etc by increasing a power amount to it. It simply does not work like that. Sound problems with low power only occur when the user tuning the amp., incorrectly sets the gain, or attempts to make up for the lower power amount by overdriving the amplifier.

Any woofer with 50 watts.. will sound just as good as the same woofer with 500 watts.... if the gain is correctly set The only percieved difference.. will be output level of course...

Loyd L.

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Originally posted by wesleysh jlaine,

I'm not understanding exactly what you are trying to do or say here. I don't think this is the forum for you if you are like that, maybe you should go somewhere else.

Why, because I don't agree with you?

No thanks, I'll stick around.

Originally posted by wesleysh I've hooked my subs up by touching the wires to the my $50 boomboxes speaker inputs, so what's your point?

My question here would be what is yours? You were the one that said underpowering your speakers is the worst thing you can do...

Originally posted by wesleysh We are not discussing the realm of possibility here. These are people who want good sound from their car audio and not damage anything. Running your Brahma's down at 300 watts is your business.

And I can do it for a year straight, and never damage my brahma. This idea of 'underpowering' a sub and damaging it is nothing more than a myth. You can get good sound, without flooring it. That isn't possibility, that is a reality.

Originally posted by wesleysh Nobody said anything about throwing 1200 watts into all your subs. Their are so many possibilities with either one of those amps. You can run a sub down at 75w very easily with one of the JBL's, so again what's your point?

You were the one that stated too little power is dangerous, and suggested amps that push the 1kW plus range, I'm still trying to figure out yours...

Originally posted by wesleysh If you want to run 100w into an L7, that's your business. But I'll stick to my 500w+ thank you.

You go right ahead, as I will not run an L7... they require too large of a box to sound good IMO...

Originally posted by wesleysh But are you saying that you can not improve the sound of your Brahma's if you ran more power into them?

Yup... bingo //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Only thing I'll get is the same sound... louder. Not better, just louder. Untrained ears tend to percieve louder as sounding better, I've done it, you've done it, everyone has done it... it's a common impulse from the brain.

Originally posted by wesleysh Which is why relatively my L7's would and have been proven to sound like doodoo with a small amp. If they were Pyramid subs I would have said, "cool, that sounds pretty nice." But Kickers and Pyramid's aren't the same price now are they?

Why? Because the kicker name is on it? Does that mean you have to add more power to get decent sound? Why?

That sounds like marketing to me...

 

[01price 10+ year member]

ohhh, BURN!!

 

[wesleysh 10+ year member]

Your still talking theory. If you want to spend the money on a sub and never listen to what it is fully capable of, that's your business. And if you want to buy a Viper and never go above 55 mph, that's your business too. I bought my subs for a reason, as did most people.

So what is a person to do when their sub doesn't perform as loud as they would want? In your world, they are to just deal with it. Why? Because it doesn't create distortion nor does it hurt the sub. That's just silly. Your trying to be as objective as possible about something that is completely subjective. If I don't like the sound I'm either going to push the amp harder or buy a new one. I'm saying that investing in a good amp is worth it, if yours doesn't produce as expected. Would save you the problems that come with the OTHER solution.