two music icons, different genres, same message?

[dbmeters]

Hey, I was in the Mike Jones album thread and it got me thinking. IMO there have only been two music icons in the last 16 years, 2pac and Kurt Cobain. You will always have your diehard Pac fans and diehard Nirvana fans, then you have some like me who are almost diehard of both. But its weird to think how 2 very differnt people lived such smiliar lives not to mention both were killed in their prime. I still believe that kurt was murdered, I have been doing research on it myslef and found some very informative sites concerning it if anyone is intrested. But basically I created this thread to get your opinons or comments, this is not a Pac vs Kurt thread, yes both were very influential and one will always be more to each person, I.E. Pac was more influential to me but you can not say one was better than the other. So any thoughts or just to pay respect to two icons. After they died it seems each genre went down hill, you got the "bling bling" era of rap, which I despise and then you get the end of Grunge and a much less edgy era of rock.

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[XtrmAudioCncpts 10+ year member]

i would have to say another band that was cut off in their prime had to be sublime. if you think about it there are other 'jam bands' out there but nothing that had the feel and impact like sublime did/does

 

[AllStar1500bd 5,000+ posts]

2pac is definetly the most mis-understood character of the 90's. In his early albums (2pacalypse Now, Strictly 4) he was basically the voice of the ghetto youth in rural cities. He voiced his opinion, but did so publically through albums. He tried to make people aware that there are crooked cops, little kids getting shot, and countless undeserved murders that happened every day. The way he expressed these concerns in his lyrics definetly caused some controversy, hence the Delores Tucker thing, the Dan Quale thing, etc...

In his later albums, starting with Me Against the World, 2pac became of an icon to other young people as well. It seems like the media was always his #1 critic, especially during his **** trial (which he was NOT guilty of, even though he spent time in jail), when he got assaulted in 93-94 in front of that NYC studio, and especially when Suge got Pac out of jail.

Still to this day, the media tries to blame things on rap icons, especially 2pac. I read an article a few weeks back that seemed to push some blame towards Pac because some kid who had a weapon on him. Here's the article, it shows how the media is totally clueless, need to get their head out of their ***, quit trying to blame shit on rap stars (especially deceased ones), and show some respect for the dead.

April 8, 2006 -- A 14-year-old boy was busted yesterday when shocked Queens cops found him clutching an Uzi semiautomatic submachine gun - with a bullet in the chamber and 27 rounds in the magazine. The 5-foot-7 teen, whose name is being withheld by The Post because of his age, was skulking down the block from JHS 217 in South Jamaica at 2:15 p.m. when cops, thinking they were responding to a routine call, rolled up.

A 911 caller had complained of seeing kids with pipes. The cops found something much more sinister.

The boy was toting the Uzi, the gun made famous as the weapon of choice for Israeli soldiers for years, while standing with friends in front of 87-10 144th St.

He attends school in Manhattan, but is believed to be a member of a local street gang called MOB, an acronym for the song "Money Over *****es" by the gunned-down rapper Tupac Shakur.

 

The song's obscene lyrics paint a bloody portrait of a life dedicated to making money at any cost: "Been raised in violence, homicide's my lullaby. I blow you up on the spot. These Glocks hot till I drop."

The boy's posse yesterday included three 17-year-olds and a 15-year- old, but he was the only one arrested.

He was charged with second-degree criminal possession of a weapon and referred to Family Court. Under the law, he can be kept in a juvenile facility until age 18.

Authorities questioning him at the 107th Precinct station house last night were hoping to learn where and how he got the Uzi - and why he was lurking with it near a school he didn't attend.

The mother of his 17-year-old pal told The Post last night cops had said no one had yet confessed to how he got the weapon.

"The police said, 'We'll get to the truth tomorrow,' " the mom said.

While the cops don't think he actually fired the gun, they described the discovery as creepy - even for the hardscrabble streets of Jamaica.

While it's not uncommon to find youths packing 9 mm handguns, one cop said, kids and Uzis make for a heart-stopping combination.

What's funny about that quote in the bold is that they took that lyric out of context, and combined the lyrics of both K-Fatal and 2pac which aren't even close to each other in the song.

 

[DIPayton 10+ year member]

I gotta agree that crime gets blamed on rapper way too much. Especially if it's a crime where kids were involved. They blame it on the kids looking up to these rappers. Come on now, I remember listening to rap such as 2 Pac since I was like 11 and I looked up to him in some ways. It never caused me to commit a crime, even at 11 years old I was smarter than that. These kids that commit crimes do it because they're stupid not because 2 Pac had something to do with it.

Overall I have to say I only know a lot about Pac and think the guy was amazing for rap. I think Pac may be a little over rated. It will never be proven, but Pac died in his prime, before he ever had a chance to become a complete sell out, release crap albums, do the bling-bling rap thing and all that... I mean look at Eminem, if he was shot before releasing his last 2 CD's, he might have been considered a top rapper of all-time... but he lived on to show us how bad he would become. Now I love Pac, but I'm just saying, he died too early, we never know what could have happened with him. He could have become even better for all I know...

And I don't know much about Cobain at all... just the comments I saw on TV a while ago... and every once in a while you can hear something about him in other songs... But yeah, I know nothing about him, but it seems like he's been very influential.

 

[AllStar1500bd 5,000+ posts]

According to a few people on another forum I frequent, 2pac has a total of at least 500 unreleased songs all together, not including the songs that have been tampered with/remixed for new crap albums such as Loyal to the Game and Better Dayz. There is an OG (original) for each song that has been released so far, very few have been released in their OG form.

2pac was a workahaulic. He was in the studio recording 4-5 tracks every night. It's amazing to think how many unheard songs that there are still out there in the "vault" given how little time he actually rapped for. This was the main reason all of the alive theories came about after he was killed.

 

[DIPayton 10+ year member]

According to a few people on another forum I frequent, 2pac has a total of at least 500 unreleased songs all together, not including the songs that have been tampered with/remixed for new crap albums such as Loyal to the Game and Better Dayz. There is an OG (original) for each song that has been released so far, very few have been released in their OG form.
2pac was a workahaulic. He was in the studio recording 4-5 tracks every night. It's amazing to think how many unheard songs that there are still out there in the "vault" given how little time he actually rapped for. This was the main reason all of the alive theories came about after he was killed.

Yeah Pac worked harder in that time than any other rapper. I've got about 250-300 Pac songs on my computer, mostly all originals, some unreleased stuff and un-finished work of his. I wish I had all of his work, but a lot of that will probably never get out. He probably would have released a few more good CD's too. If Pac was still alive today, do you think he'd be retired by now?

 

[AllStar1500bd 5,000+ posts]

Yeah Pac worked harder in that time than any other rapper. I've got about 250-300 Pac songs on my computer, mostly all originals, some unreleased stuff and un-finished work of his. I wish I had all of his work, but a lot of that will probably never get out. He probably would have released a few more good CD's too. If Pac was still alive today, do you think he'd be retired by now?

No way would he be retired right now, and hip-hop in general would have gone in a totally different direction than it did since he passed. I also have every track that's been leaked to the net, retail copies of every album, retail copies of 20 or so CD singles, 5 DVD documentaries, etc... I collect Pac stuff, as you can tell. I have a bunch of his posters too.
I have 30GB of .mp3's which are all the unreleased stuff, released albums, singles I ripped from CD, remixes, OG Vibe mixtapes, acapellas, instrumentals, etc...

 

[Darth Audio 10+ year member]

2PAC icon=yes

Kurt Cobain icon= not close

I remember when he shot himself thinking that everyone was going to make him out to be more than he was. And it's been happening ever since. I think anyone that kills themselves is undeserving of icon status even if they have the talent to back it up.

 

[dbmeters]

Yes Pac was a workaholic but even that money over *****es was created because Suge basically made him get an MOB tatto, member of bloods, so Pac changed teh meaning just like

Never

Ignorant

Getting

Goals

Achomplished

(*****)

or

The

Hate

U

Gave

Little

Infants

F**ks

Everybody

(thug life)

But he also did a lot of postive things from the concerts in the hood, to going to a hospital after hearing a girl was attacked by a pit bull (no media preent of course) and even spending an entire day with franks, his bodyguard, neice because Janet Jackson couldnt make it. I can go on and on about the positve things he has done. And I dont think he would have been in that bling era, look at his last album befoer he was killed the 7 day theory, fantasic album all around and he wasnt going to slow down on the quality of each song. And dont even compare Pac to Em, Pac had no filler songs as Em did on everything after the marshall mathers LP. Just like people shouldnt compare Pac to Big, Big had flow thats it Pac had a message. Biggie just sounded good and has no replay value, Pac gets played 90% of time in my car/house simply because I relate to him.

Now on to Kurt, for one he didnt kill himself out of the many facts one of them is that he had a morphine level of 1.52 milligrams per liter, Heroine turns into morphine instantly thats why its measured that way. The maxium does a heavy addict could take and live was recored at .5, Kurt had 70 times more than the average persons lethal dose. There is no way he had time to put his sleeve down, put the needle back in the box and pull the trigger. He woulda been out of it in seconds, thats why its not uncommon for people to be found dead iwth needles in their arm. I can go on about this as well.

But the reason both are icons are because the can relate to their audience. No one can relate like Pac and Kurt. Hell after Kurt died Kids started copying his *******, please dont critise them because we are in no position, yes it was wrong to copy but we arent them. You listen to any Nirvana album and you can relate, or most people can same with Pac. Thats what makes them icons, they changed the look of Rap and Rock forever.

 

[AllStar1500bd 5,000+ posts]

I agree with you about Pac, dbmeters, looks like we're on the same page. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

About Cobain though, I couldn't elaborate at all because I have never really been a fan of him, but I can appreciate the music that he did with Nirvana. His death was tragic, and there are always going to be rumors about him being murdered.

 

[dbmeters]

I am glad we agree on the Pac subject, I know a couple of people that I have argued with and wasted hours trying to prove he wasnt what the media said he was.

And the Kurt thing, I recommend a book called Love and Death, Love being acused of setting up the murder hence the name. Or go to Cobaincase.com. Another thing, if you read his ******* note you will see that the last 4 lines are drastically different than the rest of it. At the time he was contemplating leaving the music world and reading it in thatmind state it makes much more sense, he no where mentions ******* just that he wasnt ahppy playing with Nirvana anymore, which makes retirement even more plausable. The last 4 lines are the only part that implys *******, kepp going on for Francais(daughter), Courtney she will be much happier with out me, I LOVE YOU I LOVE YOU. However 2 of the most famous handwriting experts have both agreed it isnt Kurts handwiritng. And 2 days after kutr was found dead Loves attorney found a piece of paper in a backpack left at her house where it was just her,Love, practicing letters, maybe to copy Kurts writing for the ******* not.

But that Heroine fact is one of the most important. None of the docotrs who were doing research on the case could even find a person who had equal to or more than 1.57 Milligrams per liter. He was knocked out in less than 2 seconds for sure.

 

[AllStar1500bd 5,000+ posts]

I've never heard that about his ******* note. I tried looking for a copy of that ******* note that is readable, but can't find one. Can you link me to it?

edit: Nevermind, found one: http://www.rockmine.music.co.uk/Reaper/KurtNote.GIF

The last few lines clearly don't look like the beginning of the note.

 

[dbmeters]

Exactly, and it matches closest with Loves writing. I am not one for murder theorys, I.E Elvis, Jimi Hendrix etc. But this one even got me to believe. Another thing, Courtney filed 2 false police reports and both said how Suicidal Kurt was, well no one who know him well, his best friend even, said he was suicidal. Then in that same Back pack there was a to do list by Love and one of the things on it was "get arrested" after she "oded" she did this to flame the fire of a supposed ******* pack she had with Kurt. Basically making her out to be a victim while Kurt was left dead.

 

[dbmeters]

Another wierd thing is that Kurt was to small to fire the shot gun with his hand, he was only 115 lbs and myabe 5 5-5 7. The only way he coulda done it was with his toe, yet he was found with both shoes on.

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

People complain about crime being blamed on Rap and Hip Hop "icons", but what do they glorify?

 

If you are a musical star and are going to die, don't pretend to try to be some lame *** ganster and pretend you are cool and get shot up in a drive by spraying of bullets so other innocent people can get shot and killed too, be a real man and over dose on some heroin or cocaine.