today's random audio discussion 7/19

[Braidwood 10+ year member]

Made it through work yesterday with my last topic so why not try it again.

Lets talk about round subs vs the square cone deign such as kicker L7s.

Does it affect sound quality any by having a square sub? i would imagine it would in theory create uneven waves out in front of the cone... maybe causing cancellation?

The reason I keep seeing for square cones is that you can create more cone area in a given space. That is a good point. Now what are the drawbacks? why hasn't anyone taken it to the next level creating better subwoofers with this design? Patent?

Thinking about it, I cannot see a way for a good suspension keeping the cone movement linear with a square based cone.

Click to read more...

 

[flakko 5,000+ posts]

i cant go into any of the technical stuff, but the advantage of the square cone is more cone area while keeping the symmetry.

 

[theCybe 5,000+ posts]

Pyle has triangle subs.

 

[flakko 5,000+ posts]

lol they dont have symetry...

 

[flakko 5,000+ posts]

err they do but they arent as symmetrical as the square or circle subs

 

[nikosbuddy 5,000+ posts]

Pyle has triangle subs.

bazooka does to //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[AndyB 10+ year member]

Am i the only one who realizes that the circle is the shape that is most symetrical? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/uhoh.gif.c07307dd22ee7e63e22fc8e9c614d1fd.gif

 

[theCybe 5,000+ posts]

We're raised to conceptualize things in predetermined ways;

Linear

Planar

Perspective

But, that's just our own dimension.

Perhaps the triangle shape / pyramid object IS the most symmetrical?

I suppose that depends on your field of mental vision.

 

[Chevillac 5,000+ posts]

We're raised to conceptualize things in predetermined ways;
Linear

Planar

Perspective

But, that's just our own dimension.

Perhaps the triangle shape / pyramid object IS the most symmetrical?

I suppose that depends on your field of mental vision.

That's deep.

 

[Raven 10+ year member]

Linear output is a simple math equation of sd*xmax. Linear output is, physically, a predictable pattern of compressed air. Subs are round because you can get the most sd out of them with the shorted perimeter.

If you assume a 12" sub loses 1/2 of it's outer cone area to the surround, you have an effective sd of pi(5.5^2), or 95.033 square inches. A square sub will have 11 x 11, or 121 square inches. Therefore if two subs have equal sized surrounds and linear xmax, the square sub will have around 127% more output. Guess why those fancy square kickers meter so high.

As far as quality loss, there's a lot to that. Here's my theory:

a concave sub will initially point all of the front wave into itself, causing mild cancellation/distortion as the wave travels from one side of the sub, to the center, and out. A convex(ish) cone, like Adire Shivas with the huge convex dustcap, will send the wave out initially, causing less distortion. A flat cone will do none of this at all, but would be a little more imaging dependent, because the wave isn't sent out in any direction except forward.

And triangle subs are really a joke. Their only strong point is if you want a wall with the least amount of wasted space and can't afford the big square Kickers.

 

[94CamryBumpin 10+ year member]

Linear output is a simple math equation of sd*xmax. Linear output is, physically, a predictable pattern of compressed air. Subs are round because you can get the most sd out of them with the shorted perimeter.
If you assume a 12" sub loses 1/2 of it's outer cone area to the surround, you have an effective sd of pi(5.5^2), or 95.033 square inches. A square sub will have 11 x 11, or 121 square inches. Therefore if two subs have equal sized surrounds and linear xmax, the square sub will have around 127% more output. Guess why those fancy square kickers meter so high.

As far as quality loss, there's a lot to that. Here's my theory:

a concave sub will initially point all of the front wave into itself, causing mild cancellation/distortion as the wave travels from one side of the sub, to the center, and out. A convex(ish) cone, like Adire Shivas with the huge convex dustcap, will send the wave out initially, causing less distortion. A flat cone will do none of this at all, but would be a little more imaging dependent, because the wave isn't sent out in any direction except forward.

And triangle subs are really a joke. Their only strong point is if you want a wall with the least amount of wasted space and can't afford the big square Kickers.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/word.gif.64b12e39f936af3b4fff38a1c0bd0244.gif

 

[Braidwood 10+ year member]

We're raised to conceptualize things in predetermined ways;
Linear

Planar

Perspective

But, that's just our own dimension.

Perhaps the triangle shape / pyramid object IS the most symmetrical?

I suppose that depends on your field of mental vision.

As to the purpose of this thread, this is the best response. Very entertaining and thought provoking to get my mind off of work.

As to the rest of you, we already know the square subs have the largest surface area.. but we have not touched on SQ yet, or the suspension issue that may or may not be relevant. 1.4 more hours of work....

*edit*

thank you raven, you did cover the sq issue from the imaging standpoint. Good points really! I would never have even thought of that.

 

[Braidwood 10+ year member]

Linear output is a simple math equation of sd*xmax. Linear output is, physically, a predictable pattern of compressed air. Subs are round because you can get the most sd out of them with the shorted perimeter.
If you assume a 12" sub loses 1/2 of it's outer cone area to the surround, you have an effective sd of pi(5.5^2), or 95.033 square inches. A square sub will have 11 x 11, or 121 square inches. Therefore if two subs have equal sized surrounds and linear xmax, the square sub will have around 127% more output. Guess why those fancy square kickers meter so high.

Doesn't your 2nd paragraph contradict your 1st paragraph? With the same sized surround and equal linear xmax the round sub will have more surface area and therefore higher spl!

Has anyone ever brought up in competitions that the square subs are an unfair advantage due to the way they measure the diameter? If they measured it like a screen, from corner to corner, it would be a disadvantage, because an equal diameter round sub would have a greater surface area. They, however, measure from side to side, providing greater surface area than an equal diameter round sub.

 

[theCybe 5,000+ posts]

Aren't competition classes segregated by amplifier power, not sub sizes?