Time Alignment T/A Delay, etc.

[djman37 5,000+ posts]

I have a Clarion DXZ785USB that allows TA adjustments by entering in the distance in cm b/w each driver and the listening position. I can change the distance in 2.3 cm steps (2.3, 4.6, 6.9 cm...)
Is there a formula that can tell me how much delay in milliseconds is actually applied for each step in distance? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

speed of sound is roughly: 343 m/s

The REAL formula:

v = 331 m/s + (0.6 m/s/C)•T

where T is the temperature of the air in degrees Celsius. Using this equation to determine the speed of a sound wave in air at a temperature of 20 degrees Celsius yields the following solution.

v = 331 m/s + (0.6 m/s/C)•T

v = 331 m/s + (0.6 m/s/C)•(20 C)

v = 331 m/s + 12 m/s

v = 343 m/s

linky http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/GBSSCI/PHYS/CLASS/sound/u11l2c.html

i googled speed of sound to time

 

[djman37 5,000+ posts]

more goodness: . At a speed of sound of 340m/s, the difference in time of arrival over a distance of 20cm is 59microseconds. Human auditory perception has its limits as well – the minimum time in between sonic events to be distinguished separately is on the order of 20 milliseconds

looks like a paper: http://framework.v2.nl/archive/archive/node/text/.xslt/nodenr-69963

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

In the end you are just creating the listening environment for you. Any person you try to demo it to will not hear it the same way unless they are in the drivers seat and can actually wrap their head around what you were trying to present.
JMO

One time at band camp (a meet), this dude wanted me to listen to his car and HE proceeded to the driver seat. After he jumped in I didn't even want to get in anymore. It was a good waste of about 5 minutes. Not sure why you brought it up either...

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Do you use it?-Yes

Do you care for it?

-Love it

What's your method(s)?

-Tinker until it sounds good to me. I don't measure or do anything like that...so long as I get a centered stage, I'm happy.

Any things to be done before the T/A process?

-Get a HU with t/a, duh.

What are you trying to achieve (goals) with T/A?

Centered stage, balanced midbass.

are you gay? (optional)

What's your number?

random tinkering with no structure... interesting. At least you posted. Thanks for that.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

You gotta remember that this is car audio and not home audio... we're not dealing with one-seater cars either.
Also, mythbusters literally polished a turd.

yes i know but equal path lengths is a golden rule. If you over process you will not have a solid set up where the way a listener tilts their head or simply the height of the listener changes what they hear. Better to be solid from the start.

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

I will answer this in the morning.

 

[mcsoul 10+ year member]

There is a table on page 20 (pdf page 21 of 55) of the Alpine CDA9855 manual.

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/500/500CDA9853.PDF

 

[reed dollaz 10+ year member]

i have no answer yet. im still trying to figure this out myself. i guess ill get myself a 9887 or 3sixty to help

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

I will answer this in the morning.

You can't answer it... you're bi.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

I will answer this in the morning.

You can't answer it... you're bi.

 

[WrenchGuy 10+ year member]

One time at band camp (a meet), this dude wanted me to listen to his car and HE proceeded to the driver seat. After he jumped in I didn't even want to get in anymore. It was a good waste of about 5 minutes. Not sure why you brought it up either...

I'm just stating it to rub out that clash of opinions....lol

I am going to practice T/A here shortly manually. Reason being I'd like to learn it from scratch and learn why the T/A feature on headunits is so desirable.

Why hit buttons and guess it sounds good because the HU said so? Basically starting from scratch would get me over this question and tell me why it did it this way.

From the previous setup I had there needed to be that delay from the drivers side and its leading me to play with T/A and blend everything into a more organized image.

I'm also trying to do this with 2 BTL 18's in the Tahoe also. just keeping the front stage up to par with them is a task in its own right...lol It may not be the best in SQ but I should get a decent balance for having that kind of substage in it.

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

I would like to know how the eliteness of ca.com implements time alignment or your general thoughts about it.
Do you use it?

- Yes

Do you care for it?

- Absolutely

What's your method(s)?

- Im not understanding your question?

Any things to be done before the T/A process?

- Imaging with your mids and highs if you can, play with different positioning to hear what sounds best, this natural step will put you leaps and beyond before any processing can fix it.

What are you trying to achieve (goals) with T/A?

- Fixes separation of the mids and highs, drivers will sound more "united" and plays in "harmony", a more sense of a stage will appear(acoustically of course)

are you gay? (optional)

I use time alignment that makes me not gay, they call me Mr.SQ for a reason //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

In the end you are just creating the listening environment for you. Any person you try to demo it to will not hear it the same way unless they are in the drivers seat and can actually wrap their head around what you were trying to present.
JMO

no shit? I wouldnt know, I drive on the driver side. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

One time at band camp (a meet), this dude wanted me to listen to his car and HE proceeded to the driver seat. After he jumped in I didn't even want to get in anymore. It was a good waste of about 5 minutes. Not sure why you brought it up either...

I usually ask them before they jump in the driver seat if they would like me to sit in the driver seat instead. If they give me a confused a look and ask me why, I usually can anticipate what to expect. I like to judge people. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Mir, I don't know who "They" are, but the only person I know that calls you Mr. SQ is...

YOU

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

and by methods, I mean: how do you use your T/A. Just tinker until it sounds right like RyanM? or do your have a standard procedure?

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

and by methods, I mean: how do you use your T/A. Just tinker until it sounds right like RyanM? or do your have a standard procedure?

Pretty much, I know lots of people say that does not work, but it works for me. Chad(from diyman, not chad hicks) uses a tape measure but I dont see how that works. That tape measure does not know how high to lift the stage and where to make tonal compromises, it might sound balanced, but that's as far as it can do right?

edit: my actual method is if its in m/s ( i hate the cm and inches) I start delaying the driver side mid until the voices start coming from the windshield(rearview mirror center) then I start delaying the driver tweeter for finishing touches, they say you cant hear a tweeter move, but if you are crossed below 8khz you can hear it //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif ( "they" are the people that are running 4way so that figures)