The war against Scientology

[uPsDdOWN 10+ year member]

this thread makes me laugh...

well DevilDriver.. I am proud of you for finding something to follow in your life and people/organization to tell you how to live... you must have needed that moral guidance. A Lot of people do, due to lack of guidance or what have you in your upbringing. You want to attack me? for what? Because I dont believe the jibberish you call religion? Christianity? Scientology? Catholocism?????

My point is that the human race wants SOOOO Bad to be a part of something that you can get almost every person to believe any BS story if you say it loud enough. I did not say I was an atheist and I personally dont give a hoot what you, or any one else, believes or doesn't....

Religion, Politics, Drugs (mainly Marijuana) -- the argument is allll ways the same... it is a black and white fight and Neither side gives a **** inch... so go on and argue about your beliefs... notice the word "your" and quit trying to influence everyone else to walk through your church's doors...

... still laughing

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

I'm not religious.

Try again.

I defended those who are religious because you called them weak-minded. If you can't see the value in religion, then you are obviously the one who is weak-minded.

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

I'm not religious.
Try again.

I defended those who are religious because you called them weak-minded. If you can't see the value in religion, then you are obviously the one who is weak-minded.

I would hate to think how the world would be without religion.

 

[Tiger Bass 5,000+ posts]

wow, tom cruise was babbling in public for the christians too ? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

Look at how Christianity was formed. It was by a guy walking around claiming to the son of the one and only true God. This was in a time where everyone believed in multiple gods. They though this guy was a lunatic and crazy. So much so that they persecuted and punished him for it. How do you know Jesus wasn't just a guy going around tripped out on shrooms?

Christianity has also had is fair share of corruption within its ranks over the centuries. Lets not forget about a time when you HAD to pay money to have your sins forgiven.

What about all the other crazy shit that was caused by Christianity? The Crusades, molestation of alter boys, The Spanish Inquisition...

And yes, there have been many other crazy people throughout time speaking in favor of Christianity, just like Tom Cruise is doing for Scientology.

Also, fyi, all churches were started off as a cult.

 

[uPsDdOWN 10+ year member]

I'm not religious.
Try again.

I defended those who are religious because you called them weak-minded. If you can't see the value in religion, then you are obviously the one who is weak-minded.

Nope.. YOU are wrong.. you are trying to put yourself on top of the shit pile to make yourself look smart? i dunno why you immature lil minds seem to find a NEED to do this? Lack of self esteem maybe? I NEVER put down the church or what it teaches those that need the guidance or feel the need to be a part of something like organized religion.

oh, about this statement: "I defended those who are religious because you called them weak-minded."

so you are agreeing with me that they are weak and need YOUR help to defend their faith? I dont get it Junior? You should read what you type before hitting.

If one BELIEVES in 'their' faith SO strongly, why do they feel the need to argue and promote said faith? To the point of wars resulting ultimately in "Death in the name of GOD!" Ummm if their lord is so powerful, I am SURE he/she/it could destroy any race he/she/it deemed necessary.. Dont ya think?

p.s.... why does GOD need 10% of our wages too? he made everything... sooo.... he can HAVE anything he wants without concern of monetary value..

First of all, believing in something does not make you weak minded. That is one of the absolutely most despicable comments that I hear atheists use all the time...and when I was atheist I said the same thing.

then you follow up with:

I'm not religious.
Try again.

WHAT???? :scratchhead: so what exactly are you again????? You admit you were and Atheist.. at "One" time in your life... what made you Not be? Faith? ... I dont believe in either side of the controversy myself... and truthfully I dont care. Thats a battle I will sit on the hillside and watch thank you. lol

yet you sit here and argue with me about something you Dont believe in? I am just saying... it is a weak story held to gether by fear and Cult like following.

yep... still laughing my *** off!

 

[WillyG4444 10+ year member]

I agree that faith can have a part in making you stronger-minded, but faith and religion are two different things. Your faith could be anything really.

 

[Joe Mamma 10+ year member]

wow, this thread really took off. lol

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Religions are good in that they can provide a moral compass

That I would disagree with //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

and provide a meaning to life

Ehh....maybe.

Though attributing meaning to life shouldn't be a necessary condition for humans. Or, to maybe word it more correctly, attributing meaning based on a omniscient, omnipotent being isn't a necessary condition.

Religions make preparation for death more manageable.

Okay, I'll give you that one //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

all religions are delusions. if someone were to worship a rock, then they would be put away into a mental home, and called "delusional", or "crazy". but whats the difference with religion? there is no factual basis to prove it. the only difference with religion, is that its just a more popular delusion.

When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion. - Robert M. Pirsig

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Okay, I've done this argument before, but we'll go through it again, I suppose.

Which came first? The chicken or the egg? That is the question when we're talking about whether religion comes from morales or morales come from religion. With the exception of some extremism, most religions encourage what would be considered good morales. Can you disagree with that? Keep in mind that extremism exists in everything, not just religion. Note that I said "can provide a good moral compass"...I didn't say they always do.

I ask....do you seek to find the meaning of life? Or perhaps....do you seek an understanding of what occurs around you? I dare say these are much the same thing. If you do not seek these things out, then yes....this is not a necessary condition for humans. But I know I cannot live in a life where I don't understand everything...thus the struggles I have today as an Agnostic. In my opinion, an Atheist feels that our lives are of no value and there is no purpose to life. We are statistically unimportant, inconsequential, parasites. I will admit that is a potential reality I am not completely comfortable with, no more comfortable than I am saying that a man in the sky holds the key to all that exists.

I was an Atheist for several years. But in much the way many Christians lose faith and switch to Atheism, I lost faith in Atheism and moved to Agnosticism. I cannot find anything that proves Atheism is statistically more plausible than Theism; I believe that we only have a finite amount of knowledge and thus feel Atheism is as statistically unlikely as every other religion. The problem I experienced is that many Atheists I once identified with (say, Richard Dawkins) were very pretentious, implying that they are in fact more intelligent than Theists (Brights Movement? Come on!). In the last 5 years, I had Atheism pushed on me infinitely more than Theism...and to make matter worse, they have been doing it by calling me an idiot!

As for the other poster, I will repeat: I am Agnostic. I do not defend Theists because they are weak...I defend them because they are poorly represented on this forum and their faith is so strong that they do not concern themselves with petty arguments against bull-headed atheists. And that's fine on both parts, but stop it with the insults.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion. - Robert M. Pirsig

Exactly my point. This sums up everything I hear Atheists espouse on a daily basis.

"We are smarter than you."

It is pompous and simply incorrect. In no way do I mean to disrespect you, Brad, as I have always held you in the highest respect one can hold a stranger on the internet, but I do disagree very greatly on the very fundamentals of this argument.

 

[THUMPPER 10+ year member]

I would hate to think how the world would be without religion.

ya that would ****...

no wars over religion...

no extreame terrorists thinking they get to kill americans and when they die get 100 virgins.

no Catholic churches trying to take away peoples rights because thay think

the situation is immoral

no brainwashing or taking people for all they are worth in the name of god

..................................................................

a world with out religion would be just terrible

a guy could write a book on all the things that wouldn't happen with out religion....

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Which came first? The chicken or the egg? That is the question when we're talking about whether religion comes from morales or morales come from religion. With the exception of some extremism, most religions encourage what would be considered good morales. Can you disagree with that? Note that I said "can provide a good moral compass"...I didn't say they always do.

Look at many of the accounts in the Bible (for example) which are integral parts of the story/myth/legend/religion. They are hardly what would be considered stories of good "morals". Many of them include genocide, discrimination, murder, ****, etc.

Can they provide a good moral compass ? Yes, if you ignore large parts of the story and pick-and-choose which parts you wish to follow in order to obtain your morals. But you don't need religion to have good morals. If the only reason you have good morals is because of your religious beliefs....that's a scary thought indeed. Lets hope an individual never loses those beliefs if they need them to act morally //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

It can be demonstrated that religion is not necessary for good moral and altruistic actions. So to tout that as a benefit of religion I think is a bit cockeyed.

I ask....do you seek to find the meaning of life? Or perhaps....do you seek an understanding of what occurs around you? I dare say these are much the same thing.

The meaning to my life is loving those who I hold dear and raising my children to the best of my abilities. I don't need a meaning beyond that.

As Richard Feynman said (not a direct quote, but the essence is intact); I'm okay with not having all of the answers. I live my life happily (for the most part //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif ) by attributing meaning to life from those things that mean the most in my life.

But I know I cannot live in a life where I don't understand everything...thus the struggles I have today as an Agnostic.

Read more Richard Feynman //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

In my opinion, an Atheist feels that our lives are of no value and there is no purpose to life.

I guess I would disagree.

On an individual level, the value and purpose to my life is in my ability to love and to share. To pass knowledge and experience on to future generations so that they too can enjoy life.

We are statistically unimportant, inconsequential, parasites.

In the grand scheme of things we are only as important as the [likely] hundreds of millions of other planets with living organisms on them.

The problem I experienced is that many Atheists I once identified with (say, Richard Dawkins) were very pretentious, implying that they are in fact more intelligent than Theists (Brights Movement? Come on!).

Statistically it's true ! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

But on a more serious note, it goes both ways. Theists believe (no pun intended) they have something up on atheists. Hell, they believe they have something up on theists of a different deity.

]

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Exactly my point. This sums up everything I hear Atheists espouse on a daily basis.
"We are smarter than you."

It is pompous and simply incorrect. In no way do I mean to disrespect you, Brad, as I have always held you in the highest respect one can hold a stranger on the internet, but I do disagree very greatly on the very fundamentals of this argument.

It's more a stab at the hypocrisy of religion than intelligence, IMO.

Like the guy I quoted rightly said.....If I worshiped a rock I'd be in a mental ward. But the worship of an "eye-in-the-sky" is mainstream and taken for granted. What's the difference ?