The Great 15" Challenge

[Korn4Life 5,000+ posts]

Is there pics of each of the subs tested somewhere on this thread? I wanna see what these bad boys look like

 

[amartin_72]

Still no type R?

 

[mazzasec 5,000+ posts]

Teh results are up if anyone is interested! I found them quite interesting //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif all subs seemed to perform well.

 

[godhatescivics 10+ year member]

good job matt

 

[bumpin buick 5,000+ posts]

yup easier for me to post up there so I can control it and keep it easy to sort someone can paste em here bu it will dissapear fast im sure in the pages. ♠

 

[CobraStang98 10+ year member]

yup easier for me to post up there so I can control it and keep it easy to sort someone can paste em here bu it will dissapear fast im sure in the pages. ♠

I was actually just gonna do a COPY/PASTE the urls here to help all the lazy folks out.

 

[mazzasec 5,000+ posts]

TSNS seems to be a very nice woofer

 

[CobraStang98 10+ year member]

TSNS seems to be a very nice woofer

Yea really excelled in the 2 bigger boxes and did the numbers at a low frequency too, especially compared w/ the other big power woofer so far.

 

[mazzasec 5,000+ posts]

Ya I am curious to what made the HW peak so much higher then the others?

 

[godhatescivics 10+ year member]

mazzasec answer your pms

 

[CobraStang98 10+ year member]

Ya I am curious to what made the HW peak so much higher then the others?

Stiffer suspension??

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

2.5 ft^3 testing :

3.5 ft^3 testing :

4.5 ft^3 testing :

----

Random Notes by Bumpin :

"TSNS on 2600wrms put up a 149.8 in the 4.5cube box at two sanctioned dbdrag shows

 

ID max put up a mid 144 in the 4.5 cube box off just under 800wrms on a memphis amp, as a joke. But it was at a sanctioned event and is a verified score, amp blew shortly after though when I tried a 25hz tone, it did 30hz fine.

 

HW can take 8500wrms at 20hz and still keep great linear throw.

 

AQ HDC3 held its own for a copper used sub

 

Kove was beat and did about what was expect out of it, got really stinky though at higher power, and really fast

 

TSS loved 3000 all the way up to about 5000, tried 8500 though and it got stinky on a burp but that was expected, still works flawless though.

 

Alphamax was a great all around SPL sub and daily beater, can take a lot of abuse and I could stand on it as well as the HW. So built strong.

 

Z15 wins my award for best sounding thus far. in the 3.5 at 38hz it was so clean and crisp. I know this is mostly judged by ear but anyone who heard it could agree.

 

More subs coming for testing as they get in"

 

[bumpin buick 5,000+ posts]

thanks Jacob, ive just been really lazy lol my arms hurt from switching out subs. Pics will be up soon

 

[ninjawhiteboy12 10+ year member]

hey i have been on caraudioforum.com for a while and was interested in the AE AV series and John just refered me to this thread

this is from John

"Clearly there is still some misunderstanding on what can be expected from any woofer. I have tried to show the need for a properly setup highpass/subsonic filter to protect from over excursion. I have explained how transfer functions determine the in vehicle response and how you can work with that to get desireable results. I have the explained how EQ can easily give you flat response in a vehicle when you are working with the cabin gain you have. I have shown how proper setup of the subwoofer with the rest of the system in regards to phase, placement and time alignment will determine your success in integration with the upper bass range. I can't make anyone listen to this advice though.

It isn't possible to run a woofer with 1.5x the rated power and expect it to be able to move well beyond the physical limits it is designed for. This will break the woofer, and nothing I can do in the design will prevent this. Bassfreak's alignment is 3.5cf tuned to 30hz. This was powered by 1500W. He has the system bandpassed from 25hz to 80hz. This means with 1.5x the rated power of the driver applied in this alignment it would drive the woofer to upwards of 40mm one way. However as the driver can't move this far physically the suspension will break after repeatedly being driven this way. Plain and simple. The driver has 23mm rated Xmax and is being asked to move nearly twice this far. There is no spider that can possibly be a "fix" to allow the woofer to be driven hard enough and be pushed this far beyond it's limits. The only thing I could do from a design standpoint would be to put in a shorter coil and shorter gap to eliminate some of the motor strength at the extremes. This is what most of the car audio woofers do, but the more peaky BL curve increases distortion.

In bassfreak's alignment the driver will be excursion limited to about 750W at 25hz before surpassing Xmax. At higher frequencies though you can apply much more power without worry. If you want to throw 1500W at it so it gets louder higher up, you need to simply lower excursion at the low end. This means raising the highpass filter to a level which will keep excursion within the intended limits at the lowest frequencies. This driver was never intended to move 40+mm in one direction nor has it been claimed to be able to do so. That will break it and there is no way around it. The idea behind any woofer should be to be efficient and operate as linearly as possible within it's intended range. The goal is to move high amounts of air with with as little power as possible. Less power for a given SPL means lower distortion. The AV woofers do this very well. On the other side of this, when you have this efficiency and a large amount of force still left beyond the intended range, it is much easier to overdrive a woofer if you aren't careful. You need to make sure your system is keeping the woofer within it's limits. Again with 1.5x the rated power, asking the driver to move nearly 2x as far as it is designed to move you will break the driver.

Bassfreak's alignment models to be -3dB at 26Hz anechoic with a slight peak at 35hz, without any cabin gain even factored in. Is it going to be "bottom heavy" once you add in cabin gain? Of course it will be. If the low end is too overpowering anyway, raising the subsonic to 30-32hz or even higher will both protect the driver from over excursion and bring down the low end output somewhat. Then it will not If used within it's limits the driver would have no issues.

Uncontrolled movement above 50hz is not going to be caused by the spider. The spider has very little of anything to do at those frequencies. If the woofer is moving uncontrollably that far up, it is due to the signal. It can be due to the amplifier output clipping. This could be caused by clipping the amp itself, or something else in the signal path. You can also clip the input to the amp or the output of the head unit. A clipped signal into the amp will always result in a clipped signal coming out.

This will be my last post on this forum. Anyone who needs to contact me, feel free to contact me on AIM, yahoo, email, phone, my forum, or stop by the shop. The door is always open. For some objective test results, keep watching the 15" challenge by Bumpin Buick over on CA.com. He'll be getting a few woofers shortly to play with an measure against nearly everything else on the market.

John "

are you going to test the AV?

how have your other test been going?

i couldnt bring myself to read all 48 pages

 

[bumpin buick 5,000+ posts]

John and I are meeting up later this week to test out some of his Subs, the nightshade V1 and possibly V2 will be in by then as well. Not sure exactly which subs John and I will test but Im up for anything.

I heard about that guy breaking his, appears to be user error, but I plan to really beat on his subs and I will find out for myself.