The Flow of Electrons

[reneeb7363 10+ year member]

I won't get too technical here, but I have read some posts and statements around the forum about the flow of electrons/electricity that seem to be incorrect. This is in direct relation to THE BIG THREE and why it is SO important!

( sorry to speak down and write in Laymens terms, but I feel it is important to ensure an understanding of the topic)

Lets look at HOW a battery 'works' first...

*" If you look at any battery, you'll notice that it has two terminals. One terminal is marked (+), or positive, while the other is marked (-), or negative.

Electrons collect on the negative terminal of the battery. If you connect a wire between the negative and positive terminals, the electrons will flow from the negative to the positive terminal as fast as they can (and wear out the battery very quickly -- this also tends to be dangerous, especially with large batteries, so it is not something you want to be doing). Normally, you connect some type of load to the battery using the wire. (Amplifiers, cars electronics, etc.)

Inside the battery itself, a chemical reaction produces the electrons. The speed of electron production by this chemical reaction (the battery's internal resistance) controls how many electrons can flow between the terminals. Electrons flow from the battery into a wire, and must travel from the negative to the positive terminal for the chemical reaction to take place. That is why a battery can sit on a shelf for a year and still have plenty of power -- unless electrons are flowing from the negative to the positive terminal, the chemical reaction does not take place. Once you connect a wire, the reaction starts. "

In a simple lead acid automotive battery we are speaking about the reaction of a zinc and carbon "rod" or plate (connected with a wire, and) immersed in an sulfuric acid. Generally electrons will flow through the wire from the zinc plate to the carbon plate. Hydrogen gas builds up on the carbon plate, and over a fairly short period of time coats the majority of the carbon plate's surface. This coating restricts/prohibits the transfer of electrons and is the reason why the battery will appear 'dead' if not 'recharged.' (in a car the Alternator or Generator does the job of providing power and "re-charging" the capacitance of the battery itself.) --more on capacitors later. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif --

Given time, the coating of gas will dissipate and allow the transfer of electrons again. That's why you can turn off the key of a dead car, wait, then crank it over again. (Hoping it is enough to make it start. )

NOW that you understand how a battery "works," it should make perfect sense the necessity for the BIG THREE! The positive terminal is the "return" line BACK TO the battery. The electrons are actually being dispersed through the negative terminal of the battery and 'grounded' to the chassis of the vehicle.

How many times have you seen someone use massive 1/0 AWG wire for the positive terminal and 4 or 8 AWG for the ground? Right away we are creating a 'bottle neck' for the system and not allowing it to perform at its maximum capacity. Since your battery cannot possibly provide all the power a hi wattage system needs to "POUND," you MUST make sure the battery is able to receive all the power available from the Alternator or generator-the Big Three Again.

so, in closing,

1) Power actually flows from negative to positive.

2) DO THE BIG THREE! (the least expensive upgrade you can do)

3) When running 'power' for your vehicle, it is NOT necissary to also run a 'Negative' lead from the battery, your cars chassis is already handling that task.

4) Use the SAME SIZE ground/negative(-) wire as you are using for the Positive(+)Lead wire.

5) When connecting a negative power lead to the chassis it is imperitive you thouroughly prepare the area removing any and all paint, rust, etc.

Hope this helps answer some of the questions and confusion.

--Renee

ref:

* http://home.howstuffworks.com/battery.htm

Click to read more...

 

[reneeb7363 10+ year member]

For those that wish to dispute this, please correct me with intelligence and knowledge of the subject. If I have made an error I will be happy to correct myself. I am a licensed specialty electrician and I DO know what I am doing, occasionally--even though I have ***** and I am blonde! LOL!. I will do my best to answer any questions you have.

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

this is basic knowledge. 101 material.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

My battery has 3 terminals, 12/16V ftw

bcae1.com has pics

 

[reneeb7363 10+ year member]

this is basic knowledge. 101 material.

I do believe I stated that at the beginning of my post my dear intelligent sir.

( sorry to speak down and write in Laymens terms, but I feel it is important to ensure an understanding of the topic)

did you read all of what I wrote or are you more interested in putting me down for sharing some BASIC information that NOT EVERYONE understands?

The last thread I show that actually deals with this was http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93813&highlight=electrons

but there was no explanation as to why this works as such. I thought it would be an interesting post to explain WHY a battery works this way and hopefully help out someone whom is starting to play in this wonderful industry.

Thank you for your comments either way!

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

D. All of the above.

Welcome to CA.com where most people won't take the time to read such long posts, so I post up cliff notes.

 

[reneeb7363 10+ year member]

D. All of the above.
Welcome to CA.com where most people won't take the time to read such long posts, so I post up cliff notes.

LOL!!! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif Thank you!

I should have included pictures!

hmmmm.. guess they are reading:

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (4 members and 0 guests)

reneeb7363 , Duke , Flipx99 , XDrkmanX

 

[lilmaniac2 5,000+ posts]

ummm sometimes its neccessary to run dedicated lines of ground wire back.. ie unibody cars with 4-8kw //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[reneeb7363 10+ year member]

ummm sometimes its neccessary to run dedicated lines of ground wire back.. ie unibody cars with 4-8kw //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

agreed.... if the system is not 'grounded' through the unibody/chassis. Like the ol firehose vs garden hose theory. Gotta make sure the water/power can flow with the least resistance. It never hurts to allow more flow of electricity. Just like it was mentioned in the big three thread. It is okay to leave the stock wires and upgrade in addition to them.

 

[saywhat? 5,000+ posts]

he beat me to it. but, one thing im not so sure about anymore is the whole grounding to chassis. Wouldnt the rubber body mounts (been used for years) be an insulator to the current? Would it not stop flow drastically? I always figured thats why you ground to THE BODY, because then you chassis to negitive (really your body to negetive) would flow better, as there arent any "rubber" surfaces obstructing the path. Maybe im wrong, but just something I have thought about. Im running a lead from both in my setup for the reason of it being a unibody car.

 

[reneeb7363 10+ year member]

I understand your concern...the primary body to chassis mount on any vehicle, built within the last 10 years or so, is protected from noise and vibration by these rubber mounting "grommets" if you will, but there is an electrical connection, regardless. Mounting bolts/nuts, other vehicle electronics, the engine, the battery, the alternator (through the engine block) are all "Grounded" to the chassis and body of the vehicle so it makes sense to try and make an equivilant connection to the chassis, but obviously the mass of the metal vehicle body, will suffice. (electrically speaking of course) I didn't say DON'T run a wire from the negative terminal to the amplifier, I intended to reference that it wasn't an absolute necessity. (save some $)

 

[noob with an RS 10+ year member]

there are two theories of electron flow. one is called the conventional theory and the other is called the electron theory. the conventional theory states electrons travel from positive to negative. this is the first theory created. by the time scientists had discovered electrons ACTUALLY travel from negative to positive, it was too late to change the theory. everyone had been use to the conventional thoery. kinda like how they introduced the metric system to the U.S. but we decided not to use it. anyway the conventional theory is theoretically wrong but we still use it because the concepts remain the same and the differences arent significant to NEED to change the designs of circuits. although this has nothing to do with your post, i posted it anyway to seem like i know something about the subject.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[reneeb7363 10+ year member]

there are two theories of electron flow. one is called the conventional theory and the other is called the electron theory. the conventional theory states electrons travel from positive to negative. this is the first theory created. by the time scientists had discovered electrons ACTUALLY travel from negative to positive, it was too late to change the theory. everyone had been use to the conventional thoery. kinda like how they introduced the metric system to the U.S. but we decided not to use it. anyway the conventional theory is theoretically wrong but we still use it because the concepts remain the same and the differences arent significant to NEED to change the designs of circuits. although this has nothing to do with your post, i posted it anyway to seem like i know something about the subject.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

hahahhahahaha!!! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif kudo's to you sir! >

 

[AK SloPok 10+ year member]

I found this to be enlightning. While I understand the importance of grounding and same size wire, it feels better to KNOW why. Thanks for the post.

 

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

I How many times have you seen someone use massive 1/0 AWG wire for the positive terminal and 4 or 8 AWG for the ground?

Those would be the people smart enough to recognize that the conductance of 6' of 4 ga is about exactly equal to that of 15' of 1/0. So in many cases - the 1/0 is probably more of a bottleneck than the few feet of 4 ga.