sundown 3k fried?..pics***

[Ali1 10+ year member]

While you guys are making valid points , sundown can offer this outstandig/warranty/customer service at this time , but whose to say when sundown becomes as large as alpine / kicker / etc. that they will honor the same satisfaction as it does now ?

I think we're tired of hearing individuals recommend sundown when the OP specified a budget well under the price of sundown... And bashing the suggested amps with little to no experience with the amps.

For instance , hifonics has been bashed for the longest aBout their Brutus lines... Now that there Brutus lines are cea certified , now people are questioning it's tHD and making claims about they got such a high thd. ... When did these members actually care about THD levels ? Last time I checked , these people were only excited when they got an amp that does 3800rms instead of 3000rms....

Also I hear people claim that reasoning why sundown is expensive than other amps is because of it's warranty . If this is the case , then perhaps price the amp lower and charge for 2yr standard warranty, accidental warranty,etc. Not only will there more people purchasing sundown , but the seller has less responsibilty if warranty was not purchased.

I got nothing against sundown , but it's rather boring when all you see is sundown suggested in every thread posted .

 

[Maxipads 10+ year member]

While you guys are making valid points , sundown can offer this outstandig/warranty/customer service at this time , but whose to say when sundown becomes as large as alpine / kicker / etc. that they will honor the same satisfaction as it does now ?
I think we're tired of hearing individuals recommend sundown when the OP specified a budget well under the price of sundown... And bashing the suggested amps with little to no experience with the amps.

For instance , hifonics has been bashed for the longest aBout their Brutus lines... Now that there Brutus lines are cea certified , now people are questioning it's tHD and making claims about they got such a high thd. ... When did these members actually care about THD levels ? Last time I checked , these people were only excited when they got an amp that does 3800rms instead of 3000rms....

Also I hear people claim that reasoning why sundown is expensive than other amps is because of it's warranty . If this is the case , then perhaps price the amp lower and charge for 2yr standard warranty, accidental warranty,etc. Not only will there more people purchasing sundown , but the seller has less responsibilty if warranty was not purchased.

I got nothing against sundown , but it's rather boring when all you see is sundown suggested in every thread posted .

I just think Nightshades are bonertastic thats all..

 

[Ali1 10+ year member]

I just think Nightshades are bonertastic thats all..

Indeed !!!

 

[gunz4me2 10+ year member]

For instance , hifonics has been bashed for the longest aBout their Brutus lines... Now that there Brutus lines are cea certified , now people are questioning it's tHD and making claims about they got such a high thd. ... When did these members actually care about THD levels ? Last time I checked , these people were only excited when they got an amp that does 3800rms instead of 3000rms....

Woo, hoo, now Hifonics amplifiers are guaranteed to make rated power at 4 ohms. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

The reason I always bashed Hifonics was because I was told that the older Brutus series made most of its rated power "clipped". It was worse after I witnessed a bench test. Above 50 Hz, life wasn't so bad and the amp could produce 70 to 80% of its rated power unclipped. At 45 Hz and below, the BXi 1606D that a tech friend of mine bench tested clipped hard and fast at a fraction of the amplifier's rated power... Like 20 to 30%. The lower the tone, the sooner the amplifier went from a nice, pretty, ocean like wave to a hard tooth saw.

Oh yeah, back to my point. Big whoop, Hifonics is now CEA certified which means that they should make rated power at 4 ohms with 14.4 volts of power at 1% THD. Too bad CEA doesn't mean jack for 1 or 2 ohm operation! Just look at Kenwood's 9104d that is CEA rated! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

Also I hear people claim that reasoning why sundown is expensive than other amps is because of it's warranty . If this is the case , then perhaps price the amp lower and charge for 2yr standard warranty, accidental warranty,etc. Not only will there more people purchasing sundown , but the seller has less responsibilty if warranty was not purchased.

I think that almost everyone is failing to understand that Sundown isn't an internet only company. We do *alot* of our business in local retails shops. The "other amps" are generally direct to customer models or extremely inexpensive to produce Chinese amps (Audiopipes).

Although, I have been working with another company to potentially distribute for them direct to customer in the US. We will be handling the service as well... so our quality of service and warranty can be had on a less expensive product (not the same boards as ours). So both crowds can be happy.

PS: I don't think we will be knocking on the door of Kicker or Alpine any time soon... really have no interest in getting THAT big. Too many issues... quality and/or service inevitably will fall.

 

[nateberrier 10+ year member]

I enjoy the service sundown has to offer, most of it so far is through my brothers NEED to recone E8s /SA8s but I am impressed and Ill throw down a few bucks on an amp thats made in the US and has customer service that both gives a **** and speaks clear english.

 

[Saint211 10+ year member]

I agree with a lot of people in this post. As an actual installer, Im the guy troubleshooting stereos and bench testing "blown amps" almost every day and it is probably close to 80-90% user error. Some people I meet actually surf this website, but for every one caraudio.com head(and no one here knows *everything*) there is there is many many more people into car audio that dont investigate, read, and learn more.

I've seen a lot of UGLY installations and a LOT of customer who crank every knob on an amp. I have also heard some of the worst car audio myths and misconceptions.

It really is scary. What the average amp goes through is scary

 

[av8ter 10+ year member]

So true lol. All my friends(whose parents pay for their installs) crank the volume to stuff smells of fails lol. One of them gets his Alpine M500 to smell on a regular basis yet it somehow still works lol.....

 

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

Woo, hoo, now Hifonics amplifiers are guaranteed to make rated power at 4 ohms. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
The reason I always bashed Hifonics was because I was told that the older Brutus series made most of its rated power "clipped". It was worse after I witnessed a bench test. Above 50 Hz, life wasn't so bad and the amp could produce 70 to 80% of its rated power unclipped. At 45 Hz and below, the BXi 1606D that a tech friend of mine bench tested clipped hard and fast at a fraction of the amplifier's rated power... Like 20 to 30%. The lower the tone, the sooner the amplifier went from a nice, pretty, ocean like wave to a hard tooth saw.

Oh yeah, back to my point. Big whoop, Hifonics is now CEA certified which means that they should make rated power at 4 ohms with 14.4 volts of power at 1% THD. Too bad CEA doesn't mean jack for 1 or 2 ohm operation! Just look at Kenwood's 9104d that is CEA rated! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

The way how you describe that test is it sounds like you did it with a subwoofer wired to the amp?

If that's true then you sound ignorant stating the lower the frequency the less it outputted...

I am assuming the box that was used was tuned below 70hz... so if this is true... then it would be typical to see a reduction of power output the lower you go in the frequency spectrum. The closer you get to tuning, the higher the impedance rise will be...

I see no information on the rise value when you state the output power of the amp and i believe it is because you guys never measured it...

Therefore... if that's true, then it wasn't worth mentioning what you mentioned.

If i'm wrong about my assumptions then speak up. I'm just goin off what you didn't mentioned and filled in with typical setup techniques...

 

[gunz4me2 10+ year member]

The way how you describe that test is it sounds like you did it with a subwoofer wired to the amp?

The actual bench testing was performed with non-reactive, pure resistive dummy load resistors connected to the amplifier, a fairly large power supply, and a couple of that shop's huge ass Interstate demo batteries wired in parallel to keep the voltage up. Clipping was monitored with an old school CRT oscilloscope that looked even more ancient than my Sencore.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif Voltage and amperage were measured with the shop's Fluke meters. Edit: All testing was performed by a friend who worked for that shop, who is MECP certified and was attending school for electronics repair at that time.

If that's true then you sound ignorant stating the lower the frequency the less it outputted...I am assuming the box that was used was tuned below 70hz... so if this is true... then it would be typical to see a reduction of power output the lower you go in the frequency spectrum. The closer you get to tuning, the higher the impedance rise will be...

I see no information on the rise value when you state the output power of the amp and i believe it is because you guys never measured it...

Therefore... if that's true, then it wasn't worth mentioning what you mentioned.

If i'm wrong about my assumptions then speak up. I'm just goin off what you didn't mentioned and filled in with typical setup techniques...

Why should there be an impedance rise associated with non-reactive, pure resistive, dummy loads? The fact of the matter is the older, Hifonics Brutus series ****** royal balls below 50 Hz at making any form of clean power. Sure, the load isn't reactive or similar to that of a subwoofer, but it is pretty pathetic when other amplifiers will still produce a good bit of power as low as 15 Hz and the holy grail of budget amplifiers at that time started to peter out between 45 and 50 Hz.

Also, this test was performed nearly three years ago and I don't remember all the specifics for the power produced at 1 ohm. IIRC, it produced close to 1,200 watts without clipping on a 68 Hz tone, 800 and change (868 or something like that) with a 50 Hz tone, and 200 to 300 watts RMS without clipping on tones from 20 Hz to 35 Hz. Of course, I may be too kind going from memory and the measured unclipped output may have been lower at the various impedances.

My poor memory is the reason I keep a running spreadsheet of all the amplifiers that I bench test for myself!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

Edit... Then again, these test results are pretty moot since the Brutus line has been revised at lest two or three times since then. I still laugh at their CEA certification since the only place it holds weight is at 4 ohms due to the fact that there are currently no provisions for CEA to certify the lower impedances.

 

[SPLaudio 5,000+ posts]

just did a test with the same sub on ample voltage. all burped off 1 D.7 10" in a trunk car. this is not a burp sub. 15001 and db were ran @.35 ohms. the 30001 ran @1.4ohms. the 15001 would go into protect at 50hz not rolling but 52hz my burp freq can burp no problem.

audiopipe 1500 1 - 142.2

db drive 2000.1 (retail 1499,map1299) 143.5

audiopipe 30001-144.1

someday would like to drop in a sd amp and see #'s

 

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

The actual bench testing was performed with non-reactive, pure resistive dummy load resistors connected to the amplifier, a fairly large power supply, and a couple of that shop's huge ass Interstate demo batteries wired in parallel to keep the voltage up. Clipping was monitored with an old school CRT oscilloscope that looked even more ancient than my Sencore.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif Voltage and amperage were measured with the shop's Fluke meters. Edit: All testing was performed by a friend who worked for that shop, who is MECP certified and was attending school for electronics repair at that time.


Why should there be an impedance rise associated with non-reactive, pure resistive, dummy loads? The fact of the matter is the older, Hifonics Brutus series ****** royal balls below 50 Hz at making any form of clean power. Sure, the load isn't reactive or similar to that of a subwoofer, but it is pretty pathetic when other amplifiers will still produce a good bit of power as low as 15 Hz and the holy grail of budget amplifiers at that time started to peter out between 45 and 50 Hz.

Also, this test was performed nearly three years ago and I don't remember all the specifics for the power produced at 1 ohm. IIRC, it produced close to 1,200 watts without clipping on a 68 Hz tone, 800 and change (868 or something like that) with a 50 Hz tone, and 200 to 300 watts RMS without clipping on tones from 20 Hz to 35 Hz. Of course, I may be too kind going from memory and the measured unclipped output may have been lower at the various impedances.

My poor memory is the reason I keep a running spreadsheet of all the amplifiers that I bench test for myself!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

Edit... Then again, these test results are pretty moot since the Brutus line has been revised at lest two or three times since then. I still laugh at their CEA certification since the only place it holds weight is at 4 ohms due to the fact that there are currently no provisions for CEA to certify the lower impedances.

Ok, good deal. That is terrible isn't it?

I agree with you then, seems pathetic... We know there is typically an amplitude variance in the playable frequency range an amp will output but to have it drop so much below 50hz is terrible.... that's where the majority of music is played in and we all know that these hifonic amps are used more for music than for burps..

 

[SPLaudio 5,000+ posts]

only problem i have with audiopipe as a dealer is they are *****s and that hurts business. it ***** when you call ur distributor for a price and its cheaper on egay. yrs ago (most brands)dealer price was half of map and 130% lower than retail. so if you sold at map or 10% below it was a good sale for the customer. now there is no room for a brick and morter business to pay there bills to stay open.

companys are selling out just so they can stay in business.

 

[subzero 5,000+ posts]

Fail troll fucked up this thread //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[path2spl 10+ year member]

sundown ftw. fried 2 aq 3500s and they could never put out nearly as much as my saz3000! never broke any of my sundown amps no matter how hard i pushed them