Subwoofer cut off @ High volume

[Yaris]

Hi guys,

i have 15" Alpine type r with Kicker 06zx1000.1 wired 2 ohm

Power wire is 0000 gauge (16mm thickness wire)

Ground wire is 00 gauge (6mm thickness wire)

Head unit (Pioneer DEH-P8850) with High output 5v

when i turn the volume up the subwoofer cut off on the hard hits also the main fuse get blown and the lights are dem

gain adjustment is fine (i turned the bass boost all the way down almost adjusted to zero)

and the gain is almost at 1/4.

btw : i had the same problem with my previous amplifier (which was around 450 RMS @ 2ohm) on same subwoofer , but i wasn't have any fuses during this setup so it was working fine if i turned the volume little down.

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[CSCStang]

ALWAYS use the same power and ground wire size. How did you set your gains?

 

[Yaris]

so,

do you think it's because of the difference in wire size between power & ground cables ?

the gain has to be set between 0-12, i had it at 3

bass boost = 0db

frequency = 50Hz

 

[bbeljefe]

You're saying you have 2/0 wire that's only 6mm thick. Assuming you mean the wire only and not the jacket included, that's still too small to be 2/0... even if it's welding cable.

In any event, your entire electrical supply to the amp is only as large as the smallest wire in the circuit. Likewise, it's only as good as the weakest connection point so make sure you have very good ground connections and that the amp negative wire is not grounded with a sheet metal screw or under a seat bolt.

As for gain settings, your amp has a sensitivity range of 6 volts to ~200 millivolts. So, if you have a true 5 volt preamp signal your gain knob should be almost completely "off". Setting at ¼ could very easily be too high. Also, make sure your subwoofer output on the head unit is set to 0 and not +6 as this will introduce clipping.

You should also look into a big three upgrade if you don't already have one and you may want to check that your battery is good. With a 1K at 2Ω amp, you shouldn't be getting headlight dimming.

 

[Yaris]

You're saying you have 2/0 wire that's only 6mm thick. Assuming you mean the wire only and not the jacket included, that's still too small to be 2/0... even if it's welding cable.
In any event, your entire electrical supply to the amp is only as large as the smallest wire in the circuit. Likewise, it's only as good as the weakest connection point so make sure you have very good ground connections and that the amp negative wire is not grounded with a sheet metal screw or under a seat bolt.

As for gain settings, your amp has a sensitivity range of 6 volts to ~200 millivolts. So, if you have a true 5 volt preamp signal your gain knob should be almost completely "off". Setting at ¼ could very easily be too high. Also, make sure your subwoofer output on the head unit is set to 0 and not +6 as this will introduce clipping.

You should also look into a big three upgrade if you don't already have one and you may want to check that your battery is good. With a 1K at 2Ω amp, you shouldn't be getting headlight dimming.

okay i'll replace the 6mm thickness wire which used for the grund cabales with a 16mm thickness one to be as size as the power cable

or do you recommend to add another ground (16mm) to the current one (6mm) to be total (22mm), would there any problem if the power / ground cables are not same size ??

according to the gain setting, are you sure about adjusting the gain knob completely off ?

amp rated 1k @ 2ohm, the sub rated 750rms, so i still can raise the gain to get at least 3/4 amplifier's efficiency

 

[CSCStang]

Just replace the ground to match the power wire. As far as your gain, set it with a dmm at no more than 44 ac volts, set with a 50hz test tone. Start with the gain all the way down and your Hu at 3/4 volume, then creep the gain up until you get 44. (44.72 technically). Do the big 3 too, like bbeljefe said.

 

[bbeljefe]

okay i'll replace the 6mm thickness wire which used for the grund cabales with a 16mm thickness one to be as size as the power cable
or do you recommend to add another ground (16mm) to the current one (6mm) to be total (22mm), would there any problem if the power / ground cables are not same size ??

according to the gain setting, are you sure about adjusting the gain knob completely off ?

amp rated 1k @ 2ohm, the sub rated 750rms, so i still can raise the gain to get at least 3/4 amplifier's efficiency

Yes, replace the small ground wire with one the same size as the power wire.

As for your gains, yes, what I said is what I meant. Amplifier efficiency has nothing to do with the gain knob, it is the relationship between how much power the amp uses and how much it produces. Your amp can be its most efficient with the gain knob in any position, so long as that position is matched to the preamp signal.

I'll try to explain gain for you...

Let's say the amp's maximum power number is 10. And, let's clarify that anything the amp does over ten is wasted power and dangerous clipping.

Here are two examples wherein the amp above will produce 100% of its rated output of 10:

First, we have a preamp signal of 3 and we need to turn that preamp signal into 10 by the time it gets to the loudspeaker. We will set the gain on our amp to 7 and that will make the total output of the amp 10, which is 100% (or max) of the usable power the amp is capable of producing.

Next, we have a preamp signal of 6 and we still need to get that signal to 10. So... we set the gain on the amp to 4 and that gives us our total of 10.

But what happens if we set the gain at 7 with our preamp signal of 6? Well, that gives us 13, which is 30% more than the amp's maximum capability. The amp will try to make 13 but instead of us getting a usable 13 we will get a horribly clipped and inefficient 13 that will likely sound bad and most certainly will end up damaging our sub(s). Not to mention, the amplifier's efficiency will drop tremendously.

Obviously, the above example is very simplified and does not represent real voltages or power outputs but none the less, it is exactly what the gain on an amplifier does. And there is another negative affect from overdriving amplifier inputs that's not talked about much. Specifically, it's a reduction in the preamp signal that's actually used. For instance, if you over drive your amplifiers you will only be able to turn your source volume up to, say, 40%. But when the volume is at 40% on the source, any subtle sounds will not be amplified and thus, will not be heard. And, the result is poor sound quality.

Ultimately, with a properly set up system you should be able to take the volume on your head unit/source all the way to ~80% or more before you hear distortion... if you have external amps on all the speakers. If you're using an internal head unit amp for the front stage, that number will be ~50% and the result will be a higher gain setting on the bass amp because of the lower preamp voltage you'll get at half volume.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

your kicker amp specifies that 1/0 power and ground wires. You say your using 4/0 power wire to an amp that only can accept 1/0...

American wire gauge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 16mm thickness is waay past 4/0

I'd say Do the big 3 upgrade and buy a proper 1/0 oxygen free copper amp wiring kit from knukonceptz or sky high car audio and be done with this.

Make sure your grounds are clean, scrape off any paint left on the surface of your ground.

 

[Yaris]

Just replace the ground to match the power wire. As far as your gain, set it with a dmm at no more than 44 ac volts, set with a 50hz test tone. Start with the gain all the way down and your Hu at 3/4 volume, then creep the gain up until you get 44. (44.72 technically). Do the big 3 too, like bbeljefe said.

Yes, replace the small ground wire with one the same size as the power wire.
As for your gains, yes, what I said is what I meant. Amplifier efficiency has nothing to do with the gain knob, it is the relationship between how much power the amp uses and how much it produces. Your amp can be its most efficient with the gain knob in any position, so long as that position is matched to the preamp signal.

I'll try to explain gain for you...

Let's say the amp's maximum power number is 10. And, let's clarify that anything the amp does over ten is wasted power and dangerous clipping.

Here are two examples wherein the amp above will produce 100% of its rated output of 10:

First, we have a preamp signal of 3 and we need to turn that preamp signal into 10 by the time it gets to the loudspeaker. We will set the gain on our amp to 7 and that will make the total output of the amp 10, which is 100% (or max) of the usable power the amp is capable of producing.

Next, we have a preamp signal of 6 and we still need to get that signal to 10. So... we set the gain on the amp to 4 and that gives us our total of 10.

But what happens if we set the gain at 7 with our preamp signal of 6? Well, that gives us 13, which is 30% more than the amp's maximum capability. The amp will try to make 13 but instead of us getting a usable 13 we will get a horribly clipped and inefficient 13 that will likely sound bad and most certainly will end up damaging our sub(s). Not to mention, the amplifier's efficiency will drop tremendously.

Obviously, the above example is very simplified and does not represent real voltages or power outputs but none the less, it is exactly what the gain on an amplifier does. And there is another negative affect from overdriving amplifier inputs that's not talked about much. Specifically, it's a reduction in the preamp signal that's actually used. For instance, if you over drive your amplifiers you will only be able to turn your source volume up to, say, 40%. But when the volume is at 40% on the source, any subtle sounds will not be amplified and thus, will not be heard. And, the result is poor sound quality.

Ultimately, with a properly set up system you should be able to take the volume on your head unit/source all the way to ~80% or more before you hear distortion... if you have external amps on all the speakers. If you're using an internal head unit amp for the front stage, that number will be ~50% and the result will be a higher gain setting on the bass amp because of the lower preamp voltage you'll get at half volume.

Thank you, you support is really appreiciated

my problem has been solved after replacing the following :

1- replacing the small ground wire with one same size as power cable (16mm thickness)

2- connecting the power cable directly to the + at the battery (in the previous setup i was connecting the power cable to the ACC power cable inside the car, and i found out that this ACC cable was very weak and that was the main cause for main fuse blown)

now i can raise the volume whatever i want without cutting off or dimming the light.

even if the sub hits too hard !!

according to gain adjustment, i did understand what you mean

but how can i be sure that i reached 100% amplifier efficiency ? talking in consideration that my amp rated 1k @ ohm while the subwoofer only 750 rms !!

so i want to reach around 75% amplifier efficiency

i tried to completely off the gain knob but the bass was weak !!

i have set it at 5 (out of 12) with bass boost completely off

the sub hits too hard but still clear and nice sound

how can i make sure that this setup is not introducing clipping ?

my old Rockford Fosgate PX series was having clipping indicator, unfortunately the kicker doesn't have

your kicker amp specifies that 1/0 power and ground wires. You say your using 4/0 power wire to an amp that only can accept 1/0... American wire gauge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 16mm thickness is waay past 4/0

I'd say Do the big 3 upgrade and buy a proper 1/0 oxygen free copper amp wiring kit from knukonceptz or sky high car audio and be done with this.

Make sure your grounds are clean, scrape off any paint left on the surface of your ground.

do you think that using (16mm thickness) could make any damage to my amplifier ?

 

[CSCStang]

No damage is done with that size wire. You prevent clipping by not introducing distortion. If you keep the gain under 45 volts, you shouldn't have a problem. I doubt you're gonna hurt that R. Is the amp getting hot?

 

[Yaris]

No damage is done with that size wire. You prevent clipping by not introducing distortion. If you keep the gain under 45 volts, you shouldn't have a problem. I doubt you're gonna hurt that R. Is the amp getting hot?

i don't have voltmeter so i don't think that i would be able to measure 45 volts !! is there any other way for measuring this ?

and yes the amp is getting hot, specially in the morning because it's 43 C here !!

 

[CSCStang]

Go buy one. $10 to 15 bucks at walmart. From what you said about where you have your gain now, I'm sure it's set way too high.

 

[bbeljefe]

The only way for you to set the amp at 75% power... not efficiency, is to use a voltmeter to set the gain at that power level.

That said, you do not need to worry about overpowering those subs by 250 watts. They can handle that power with no problem so long as you aren't clipping the signal. And again, that is accomplished through proper gain settings and not using loudness, bass boost or any other boosting gadgetry.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

yes please stop using wrong terminology power is power, efficiency is efficiency, they are not the same and cannot be used interchangeably.