Subs with tall roll surrounds/ recone kits

[mendon mafia 10+ year member]

so what subs are out there that have tall rolled surrounds? seems like only good subs have this feature. never heard people complain about subs with this style surround

seems stupid to not use this style as it yields a lot more cone area and doesn't hinder excursion. why dont all manufactures use them. if it comes down to cost thats dumb. maximizing cone area, at least to me is the main objective when designing a woofer aside from sound output. I would imagine the surround wouldn't change anything in terms of response tho.

are there recone kits available with tall rolled surrounds? Can i get these for my alphas?

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[tc3k101 5,000+ posts]

I think it keeps the from being linear when it comes to reaching its mechanical limits or something like that. there was a thread where they talked about it. i will try to find it

edit*

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cone-for-TC-Sounds-Eclipse-Audio-Pulse-Digital-Designs_W0QQitemZ220497711799QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Subwoofers_Enclosures?hash=item3356b012b7

you can buy those cones and then just have rd sell you the coil and spiders

 

[mendon mafia 10+ year member]

I think it keeps the from being linear when it comes to reaching its mechanical limits or something like that. there was a thread where they talked about it. i will try to find it
edit*

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cone-for-TC-Sounds-Eclipse-Audio-Pulse-Digital-Designs_W0QQitemZ220497711799QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Subwoofers_Enclosures?hash=item3356b012b7

you can buy those cones and then just have rd sell you the coil and spiders

ill buy that but it just seems weird since the most there seen is in high excursion woofers ie. tc sounds, omegas etc.

thanks for the find tho. after i blow these i might make some customs using those cones and surrounds.

 

[woofercooker 10+ year member]

Though the hughroll surrounds provide more cone area they do change how linear the stroke is. Similar to why some subs have flat spiders and some use progressive roll. A wide roll or half roll surround is a bit more functional. My old DD subs had high roll surround and I did notice that they were more apt to tear at the cone/surround joint than any of the wide roll surounds I had used. here is a pic.

Ignore my ex's nails haha

 

[tc3k101 5,000+ posts]

ill buy that but it just seems weird since the most there seen is in high excursion woofers ie. tc sounds, omegas etc.
thanks for the find tho. after i blow these i might make some customs using those cones and surrounds.

im sure they mainly use it for cosmetic purpose only. everyone normally goes nuts over high roll surround subwoofers.

 

[Thewes 10+ year member]

I was told by Jacob that high roll surrounds tend to deform and are less linear. I guess the linear coil technology allows the LMS to use the high rolls and not worry about linear output.

 

[terra 5,000+ posts]

Coil rock/linearity issues are 2 issues.

 

[mendon mafia 10+ year member]

ok linearity, but if you have more cone area you dont need to move as far to displace the same amount of air. I guess its like all things, a compromise.

thanks for the fast input guys

 

[J31Rob 5,000+ posts]

why don't you try to design a speaker.. and use different parts. you'll understand.

until then, this thread is going to yield a bunch of worthless general answers.

 

[mendon mafia 10+ year member]

why don't you try to design a speaker.. and use different parts. you'll understand.
until then, this thread is going to yield a bunch of worthless general answers.

maybe someday, most likely not until im rich, old, and have a lot of free time. but by then i probably wont even care anymore. its unfortunate life never allows us to do what we want when it makes sense.

until then I will probably find it difficult to even make time to do builds (about to start PhD program and its 5 years:crap

although i do see an issue straight off the bat. the cone needs to be different depending on the surround chosen. so even with all other things constant to change the surround you gotta use a different cone so its not quite apples and apples.

 

[J31Rob 5,000+ posts]

maybe someday, most likely not until im rich, old, and have a lot of free time. but by then i probably wont even care anymore. its unfortunate life never allows us to do what we want when it makes sense.
until then I will probably find it difficult to even make time to do builds (about to start PhD program and its 5 years:crap

although i do see an issue straight off the bat. the cone needs to be different depending on the surround chosen. so even with all other things constant to change the surround you gotta use a different cone so its not quite apples and apples.

Find a motor, contact TeamPSI & I'm sure he'd supply you with parts.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

My understanding (and experience) is that high roll surrounds are very linear within their intended range but do not provide a linear compliance profile once they reach a certain point of travel. That is, the restoration force being applied for the inward stroke differs from the force being applied for the outward stroke, after the non-linear range is exceeded. This is the non-linear behavior most are describing.

It is a fact that every single surround no matter what size, shape, or material, will deform and buckle when reaching the extremes of travel. I can make my half roll surrounds do it just as easily as my high roll surrounds. The difference is that it takes far longer for a high roll surround to do this and it saves the cone/surround joint from being stressed as much as a half roll surround would sustain, for the same amount of travel. The high roll surround also allows for a bit more maximum travel but, as it's been mentioned, this would be less linear and would most likely be for the sake of extreme output or extension. I like to think of it as a safety run-out, a bit of mechanical headroom to allow for huge dynamic swings or even a mistake with the volume knob. Factor in that a high roll surround allows for about 20% more cone area compared to a half roll surround that would allow for the same excursion capabilities and it might make sense to choose the high roll surround even if it's non-linear at the extremes. Basically, it can mean the difference between breaking your driver or listening to it again after an event that led to maximum excursion for whatever length of time.

It's also worth mentioning that a rubber surround will offer better long-term reliability than a foam surround (high roll or half roll) where ripping apart at the cone/surround joint is concerned. The cone might tear away from the surround but the rubber surround itself is not likely to tear like a foam one will as was pictured by woofercooker.

 

[SPLaudio 5,000+ posts]

did you know that you calculate half ur surrond as cone area anyway. high roll less linear no doubt. i have subs with both.

 

[SPLaudio 5,000+ posts]

did you know that you calculate half ur surrond as cone area anyway. high roll less linear no doubt. i have subs with both.

 

[mrogowski 5,000+ posts]

did you know that you calculate half ur surrond as cone area anyway. high roll less linear no doubt. i have subs with both.

Indeed. The general consensus was 1/3 surround but that has changed over the years. A person doesn't gain any cone area whatsoever by going with either type.