SQ Fi vs. RE

[v2.0]

aka limited knowledge...

Um.. i live in okc. home of dd. i have toured there factory. so much of it down here it isnt even funny. no the 9100 doesnt sound that good. deal with it. EDIT: to add.. yes i have heard it, plenty of times. i honestly thought the ed a v2 sounded better. far more natural. but, sadly, they don't have this super cone you cant get off of. (you know, that super cool composite cone that seems to break if you don't load the box JUUUUUST right)

 

[kylec 10+ year member]

It's amazing how people on this forum have to take constant shots at each other, but I digress. I am going to look into a few options, in my mind right now are SI Mag's, RE MX/XXX, or FI Q's. Another big factor will be what size woofer to go with:crap: . I am pretty set on getting memphis/crown/ or sundown amps, I just haven't quite decided. But until then I am going to going to get my MECP certification in this next month and start working on the deadening part of the install.

 

[buggsson 10+ year member]

I have a few suggestions for you. Mind you that I have not listened to them myself, but I consider them for myself because I've heard good things about them. As you are undescided for size, you get two. I might have missed your intended application, but these are more geared towards sealed apps.

15"

AA Havoc

Audiotop Nemesis WN

Mach 5 Audio IXL

SSA Icon

12"

Carpower Sonic

CSS SD

DC Sound Lab Level 3

 

[ruel1977 10+ year member]

Re

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Um.. i live in okc. home of dd. i have toured there factory. so much of it down here it isnt even funny. no the 9100 doesnt sound that good. deal with it. EDIT: to add.. yes i have heard it, plenty of times. i honestly thought the ed a v2 sounded better. far more natural. but, sadly, they don't have this super cone you cant get off of. (you know, that super cool composite cone that seems to break if you don't load the box JUUUUUST right)

what box tune etc? the suspensions they use aren't the same thing you find on the other series woofers there not nearly as stiff... the woofer is a much higher Q woofer with a much lower FS.. it still sounds slightly dry as compared to the XXX15 which sounded more laid back. to me its sounded better on the bass drums while the XXX sounded fuller on rap.. the XXX(pre split coil) was my favorite woofer just ouput was a bit disappointing for a given input...

my initial impressions is how well it(9100) blended with the midbass vs other woofers(mids and woofer where crossed at 80hz which with the proper amount of midbass it sound very much infront of you not dragging the bass/midbass rearward) while getting very low and needing about 600 watts to get pretty **** loud.. simple fact it can handle 1500 RMS musically is a nice part of the design, its because of the excellent cooling system and very high temp glues... the DD 9112 in 1.75 cubes tuned to 28 to me sounded better than the ID max installs i have heard ported... the ID really shines sealed in tonal response.. especially at the higher frequencies(above 60hz).. many people don't have this problem because they cross there woofers so low which gives the woofer an even narrower bandwidth which helps filter alot of the drivers natural falloffs.. same with a sealed box is the most forgiving box you can build so basically ID KISSed it.. keep it simple stupid...

sealed alignments already offer low GD and are much easier to tune.. they used a very linear flat spider long low diameter 4 layer VC(keep xmax up and MMS down while still having decent power handling) other than that thew woofer isn't different from many other "SQ" woofers... the design is easy and works great, keep it simple stupid.

DD takes a different approach,even though it has a higher GD(vented alignments) you need alot less Xmax for a given output when the box IS DESIGNED AND TUNED correctly the GD is inaudible... they always have good mechanical dampening/ low inductance, low MMS and great cooling in there woofers.. the 1.75 tuned to 28 sounded excellent and i wouldn't change a thing, except use a good deal of port area about 30in^2 to start...

differences between the 9100 and ID max sound wise , is the id gets peaky quickly as you go futher from FS(low FS and low QES does this) when ported ... sealed the ID digs low sounds good up to mid range and gets decently loud.. it does sound great sealed.. the DD sounded OK sealed but shines ported. gets very low sounds excellent on any kind of material i could find to listen to and still played well above the crossover point... i could cross it over at 120 and its still sounded decent... if i done that with the max it had a huge fall off same with the XXX..

in the box its ideal for it needs no more than 16MM of xmax to reach the desired output and f3..

as for as the cones go, its one the strongest cones you can get besides the titanium cones(but weight less than the TI cones).sure the cones fail without and loading any cone will time has proven that..But the cones take 25K+ burps and doesn't fold while doing over 180 DB with a single driver... the proof is in the pudding plain and simple... try that with any other "SQ" woofers' cone... and yes they share the same cone(Z and 9100, 9500 and 3500)

i haven't seen one dumaxed but i can tell you the motor is going to be really linear with a very shallow roll off(look at countless underhung designs).. the coil is a short wound 4 layer coil and the suspensions corrugation heights greatly differ from the previous 9100 that was dumaxed(which wasn't bad for its time) there surrounds are a bit non linear but in the operational range they are linear..(there non linear for the reason the flat spiders rip alot easier under extreme loads and rubber surrounds are too compliant to help mechanical dampening hence the use a flat spider that is linear with the foam surrounds simply to help them under extreme loads from ripping themselves apart...

not saying it has lower inductance or as linear B/L curve as the XBL LMS or split coil but in the useable throw thats intended(+- 16MM) its just as linear as any SQ design..

http://nuway-speaker.com/ more suspension info there..

didnt mean to come off as a ass hole but people say something sounds bad and many people with no experience concur.. DD happens to have that trail them since the late 1990s now there much improved.. the 2500 is a very nice woofer as well is sounds great very similar to the ID max infact and has a TON of output not to mention is about 200 bucks a pop. its also has multiple soft flat linear spiders...

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Need I say more?You recommend very low distortion drivers? What is that supposed to mean? I wasn't aware that the subs caused the distortion, and not the amps. What was your point again? The mag has a linear low distortion design...so....what? I can't really follow. You can't spell half of your words, or use correct grammar at all, yet you expect me to bow down to you as if you know everything about woofers. Yeah, ok.

WTF are you talking about.. i wasnt aware the subs caused the distortion not the amps? are you a politician? its like your tring to argue, but not with me yourself!? clearly the driver can and will distort... many many amps todays are more than clean enought have adquate dampning and more than powerful enought to push any woofer beyond its linear limit... anyone can tell you this.. oh my god not another one... attacks at my spelling are nothing new so you cna keep that out of the argument as many past people who tought me done so as well...

Your arguments as to why the IDmax is a bad sub is completely flawed.

First, it IS an SQ driver. Do you understand the concept of SQ, or what it even is? It's high frequency extension is low because as an SQ driver it is meant to blend into the front stage, not over power it. That is what the max was DESIGNED to do as an SQ driver. New woofers have a better power handling and use better glues therefore they are better woofers? Really? I wasn't aware. I'll go pick up my jackhammer right now! I mean, it has a high power handling and great glue, it must be an AMAZING SQ DRIVER!!!! I don't care if the price of the IDmax is a million dollars. It is still a great sq driver, no matter what the price is. That isn't really to relevant if it is still a good driver. JL audio is way over priced, yet they make solid products. Just because they are expensive doesn't make them bad.

ok again, here you go.. you ask me do i know what an SQ design is then you proceed to tell me its not ment to go past about 60hz, yet the very point that has been debated for years transit response that goes against everything a good woofer is defined as.. on that is able to play well past its usable bandwidth.. you don't want too wide of a bandwidth cause it hurts efficieny but too little really limits the applications and installlations its usable in...

like i said in my other post the 9100 impressed me because it was able to be crossed higher than many proclaimed SQ woofers and didn't affect the sound stanging.. midbass/range woofers crossed any lower than about 70 hz puts a huge strain on the upper frequency response espically when your using a 2 way set, even 3 way sets. subbass stops at 80hz not 60hz... if you have the room and can easily keep all the midbass range and tweeter in the same plane phase and distance thats required to get perfect stereo seperation and FR fine but for people like me that can pretty much only use a very high end 2 way set its much more difficult to get a woofer that is capible of blending in crossover that high...

Now that makes me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif:laugh:

you may laugh now but in the end you will see the light... DD makes excelllent woofers and the 9100 is no exception...

 

[SHOemup233 10+ year member]

you may laugh now but in the end you will see the light... DD makes excelllent woofers and the 9100 is no exception...

I never said they don't make great woofers. If you choose to believe that the 9100 is a better SQ woofer than the IDmax, and every other SQ driver ever, as you seem to believe, that is up to you. I don't have the time to continue this fruitless argument.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

I never said they don't make great woofers. If you choose to believe that the 9100 is a better SQ woofer than the IDmax, and every other SQ driver ever, as you seem to believe, that is up to you. I don't have the time to continue this fruitless argument.

have you listen to them? the ID isn't the best soudning woofer by any means.. good but not best... my XXX IMO was a better woofer by far...

 

[SHOemup233 10+ year member]

have you listen to them? the ID isn't the best soudning woofer by any means.. good but not best... my XXX IMO was a better woofer by far...

Where did I say the idmax was the best sounding woofer again?

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Where did I say the idmax was the best sounding woofer again?

you portray it to be....

 

[SHOemup233 10+ year member]

you portray it to be....

I don't at all. You portray the 9100 and all of DD to be the best woofers ever. I was simply saying the Idmax was a better SQ sub than the 9100. Is the max the best SQ sub ever? No. Although it is all subjective.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

I don't at all. You portray the 9100 and all of DD to be the best woofers ever. I was simply saying the Idmax was a better SQ sub than the 9100. Is the max the best SQ sub ever? No. Although it is all subjective.

never said DD was best... my last few woofers wheren't DD, go figure... probably grad a pair od 3515s next though.. maybe a pair of IA DR or DPs..

the sub i would have to say i like best would simply depend on what i was tring to acomplish... if it was SQ and i didn't care about volume it would be a if i wanted something that got loud as hell and sounded good it would be B etc... there is not best.. only whats best for your application and your perference...

 

[bryce-man 10+ year member]

lol paperdipchit.. shut up you loose and we all know it

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

lol paperdipchit.. shut up you loose and we all know it //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

hehe i love people like you... people who cannot justify what they say. definitally the smartest of the bunch... he is arguing with me and he never owned both.. probablly nethier...

 

[06salterego 10+ year member]

ive owned btl, bl and q and ive owned the sx, and the re lines, to me the sq is almost the same, the se line however is acutally better sounding then the q.........