SQ amp for Components

[gunz4me 10+ year member]

Okay I'm not coming back to this thread unless the OP comes back. BUT, I will say this. I had my Alpine MRV-F345 hooked up to my CDT comps a while back. I had sold my Type-R subs so I was just running my passive front stage. I was looking to replace all my amps with Audison and my local shop gave me a good deal on the display LRx2.4. I had planned on getting the matching 1.1k for my new substage. Well, after hooking up the Audison to the CDTs, and setting the gains and Xovers the same, there was definitely a different sound to my speakers. I am in no ways an expert, nor can I actually describe exactly how the sound was different, but it was. Some frequencies seemed a little more pronounced, while other seemed more relaxed. That is ALL I'm going to say on this matter. However, that is comparing a 120x2 rated 2ch amp and a 75x4 rated 4ch amp. I can't even tell you guys which amp sounded "better" because they both had a unique sound. In the end though, I didn't think the Audisons were worth the price and I ended up selling it, went back to my Alpine for a while, then picked up my US Amps AX5600 I have now to go active. I did run the AX5600 with the CDTs passive for a few months too. Honestly it sounded pretty similar to the Alpine.
All that aside, I think I can honestly say that the Audison didn't have a very "natural" sound to it. I know the LRx is their mid-grade line, so I don't know if it is made with cheaper parts than the VRx series, but all I am saying is that there definitely was a difference in sound from my Audison and my Alpine/US Amps. It wasn't a HUGE difference, but I noticed, and I think it was easier to notice when I wasn't running any subs because I came to recognize the subtleties of my comps better.

I'm not agreeing with bulldogg, but just stating my personal experience as I believe anyone could have heard the difference. Like I said gains and Xovers were set the same, and no settings on my 9835 were changed at the time.

Differences in power output levels will make a difference in what you hear, especially if you are dealing with more clean power versus less clean power, distorted power, etc. Also, some amplifiers are grossly underrated whereas others are grossly overrated so you really can't compare amplifiers with the same specs. Heck, even identical amplifiers from the same manufacturer will have different maximum unclipped output levels, but I've gone off on a tangent......

In order to perform "proper" testing that is in no ways scientific, you would have to set all of your amplifiers to produce their output at the same levels. Example, if you are comparing a 125 x 2 amp at 4 ohms and a 75 x 2 amp at 4 ohms, you should set your 125 x 2 amp to output the same amount of power at the maximum unclipped level your head unit can provide. In other words, set your 125 x 2 amp to deliver 17 volts with a 1,000 Hz test tone at your head unit's maximum unclipped volume and set your 75 x 2 amp to do the same.

Next, pick some source material and listen to them at 1/4 to 1/2 volume, no louder. I bet you will be hard pressed to tell the difference between the two amplifiers UNLESS your amplifier has a built-in loudness contour like some Rockford Fosgate amplifiers do. In other words, if you hear a difference, your amplifier is doing something other than amplifying the signal that you are providing to it!

Now, you probably will be able to tell a difference as you reach the 3/4 volume level because the lower powered amplifier will be reaching its maximum output and possibly start to clip whereas the amp that you down tuned to run at the lower output level should still have some headroom left, albeit not much.

Finally, keep in mind, the testing method I outlined above is not scientific by any means, but was recommended to me by someone who has been involved with car audio since the mid 80s when I told him I could hear differences in 12 volt power amplifiers! After setting to the lowest common denominator AND playing the volume 1/2 or lower, I was hard pressed to tell the difference between the various amplifiers that I once thought I could hear the difference between!

 

[cleansoundzz 10+ year member]

For years and years I have heard systems with amps such as Sherwood, Jensen, Unic, Ultrasound, Kenwood, Pyramid, etc sound so much better than RF, JL Audio and other high end brands because of the quality of the speakers, head unit and install when it came down to it. The major difference between a 'el cheapo' amp between that of a high end brand is the build quality, components used, warranty, circuitry, etc. In fact if a really really good crossover is used to clean up the signal going to the speakers even 'el cheapo' amps will consistently sound better than even the MacIntosh, Audison and other so called high end brand names. Eventually though the cheap amps would break down much quicker from normal use, overheating than the better quality ones. A RF, Audison, Linear Power and other high end brands will if used properly last the lifetime of several cars whereas a person would be going to the swap meet to constantly replace the 'el cheapo' amps every year. But as far as sound goes, if more people understood that one amp will not sound as good or better than the next amp, then a lot of the high end car audio brand name companies would go out of business.

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

Why is it you guys are having such a hard time admiting that some of us can hear a difference in some amplifiers even when they have the same specs( which isn't often)? I'm not the only one who has said they can hear a difference. Is it that you guys are tryin to convince yourself that there's no difference because you can't afford them?

I already told you why; because your not special. You don't have superman hearing. The laws of physics apply to you as well as everyone else. It is beyond the capacity of any human, or dog for that matter, to hear sonic differences between amps.

I also told you that if you hear a difference in amps, what your hearing is differences in power or a techinical problem. It's not SQ your hearing, it's a failure to use the right amp or one amp is malfuntioning. Specs on amps lie or have different testing standards making true apples to apples comparison difficult. Follow the link to the Richard Clark test and read the FAQ section.

This has been proven and rehashed repeatedly. Your not special. You can't hear SQ differences in amps, because no human can. This includes you.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

you're*

 

[LaserRed38 10+ year member]

Differences in power output levels will make a difference in what you hear, especially if you are dealing with more clean power versus less clean power, distorted power, etc. Also, some amplifiers are grossly underrated whereas others are grossly overrated so you really can't compare amplifiers with the same specs. Heck, even identical amplifiers from the same manufacturer will have different maximum unclipped output levels, but I've gone off on a tangent......
In order to perform "proper" testing that is in no ways scientific, you would have to set all of your amplifiers to produce their output at the same levels. Example, if you are comparing a 125 x 2 amp at 4 ohms and a 75 x 2 amp at 4 ohms, you should set your 125 x 2 amp to output the same amount of power at the maximum unclipped level your head unit can provide. In other words, set your 125 x 2 amp to deliver 17 volts with a 1,000 Hz test tone at your head unit's maximum unclipped volume and set your 75 x 2 amp to do the same.

Next, pick some source material and listen to them at 1/4 to 1/2 volume, no louder. I bet you will be hard pressed to tell the difference between the two amplifiers UNLESS your amplifier has a built-in loudness contour like some Rockford Fosgate amplifiers do. In other words, if you hear a difference, your amplifier is doing something other than amplifying the signal that you are providing to it!

Now, you probably will be able to tell a difference as you reach the 3/4 volume level because the lower powered amplifier will be reaching its maximum output and possibly start to clip whereas the amp that you down tuned to run at the lower output level should still have some headroom left, albeit not much.

Finally, keep in mind, the testing method I outlined above is not scientific by any means, but was recommended to me by someone who has been involved with car audio since the mid 80s when I told him I could hear differences in 12 volt power amplifiers! After setting to the lowest common denominator AND playing the volume 1/2 or lower, I was hard pressed to tell the difference between the various amplifiers that I once thought I could hear the difference between!

Makes sense to me. Again I wasn't saying "I can hear differences in amps". Just saying going from my Alpine to my Audison I heard a difference. And I agree it wasn't a fair comparison...

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

you're*

you're a tool?

 

[528hz 10+ year member]

I already told you why; because your not special. You don't have superman hearing. The laws of physics apply to you as well as everyone else. It is beyond the capacity of any human, or dog for that matter, to hear sonic differences between amps.
I also told you that if you hear a difference in amps, what your hearing is differences in power or a techinical problem. It's not SQ your hearing, it's a failure to use the right amp or one amp is malfuntioning. Specs on amps lie or have different testing standards making true apples to apples comparison difficult. Follow the link to the Richard Clark test and read the FAQ section.

This has been proven and rehashed repeatedly. Your not special. You can't hear SQ differences in amps, because no human can. This includes you.

I can...I see sound to be honest with you. Yep...true hybrid here //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[LaserRed38 10+ year member]

you're*

QFT

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

you're*

You're a douche. Hey, you're right, that does work better. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[XtheoneandonlyX 10+ year member]

....OK, I was wrong, it is passive....maybe I should pay more attention so I don't make those mistakes, but thats what you guys are here for right? ....and props to Laserred38 for pointing out my mistake. Its nice to know some people on here still care about answering other peoples questions.

 

[LaserRed38 10+ year member]

Welcome man. And honestly, if you're going to run a 3-way set-up passive, especially knowing Rainbows' build quality, I'd probably run at least 200-250 a side. Either bridge a big 4ch or find a nice big 2ch. What sub/sub amp are you running? What is your electrical situation? I like to match amps so whatever sub amp you are running I'd run a 2ch or 4ch from the same manufacturer. If all your stuff got stolen, I'd go with a pair of Sundown amps. Decently priced, reliable power. No extra frills. Get a 100.4 for the Rainbows...

 

[Brian_smith06 10+ year member]

try an alpine mrp-f600. i have one and love it. has not let me down yet. has plenty of power and my id comps love it.

 

[LaserRed38 10+ year member]

BTW, an active set up would be if you were running say, a 6ch amp or 3 2ch amps and running all of your speakers on their own independent channels and bandpassed crossovers. You would need either a 4-way active head unit (very few exist) or an external processor such as an Alpine PXE-H701. Just FYI for future reference if you didn't know. Running active gives you so much more control and flexibility, but it also requires a lot more tuning time and skill to not damage your components. That being said, now that I've gone active I won't go back. Once you try it, it's the best thing since sliced bread!

 

[XtheoneandonlyX 10+ year member]

actually i just bought an Alpine pxe h650, that was recommended to me, I heard it in a buddy's G8 and loved it. yea my previous setup was passive, and thought about going active, but I am gonna do passive, because if I run active, I am gonna wanna rebuild kicks so they are angled better and that will take me at least a week. Idk, i am trying to find a good enough reason to switch but like I said, im a college kid with little time and money.

 

[XtheoneandonlyX 10+ year member]

oh and the subs are 2 Rl-i 8s from soundsplinter (in a ported box), I don't care what ppl say, I love them, they were ran on a US amp (I don't remember the model number but i could find it if your really curious), Ill probably buy the same for them because they sounded pretty close to what I was looking for.