Soundstage problems

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Blown Camaro

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So a couple years ago I built a system for my '73 Camaro. I didn't spend a lot and it turned out "just okay". The main problem is vocals are a little muffled, and it has very little treble. Maybe it can be tuned to sound better so here is my question and what I have:

PIONEER DEHX7500S (I think this is the model, I have 4 volt preout one)

Pioneer 6x9 3 way speakers in kick panels

Pioneer 6x9 3 way speakers package shelf

Lanzar 4 inch coaxials in outer dash A/C vents

Lanzar silk domed tweeters (in aim able pods) top front of door panels

4 channel Autotek Mean Machine 2000.4 amp

Right now all speakers are crossed over at 80hz via head unit PLUS 3500hz passive on tweeters only

HOW would you wire this to the amp? I have 8 speakers for only 4 channels and can't figure out how to fade this. The sound is at my feet right now!

Thanks...

 
I'd honestly get rid of all of your gear and start new. Get quality drivers, tweets by the A pillars or sail panels, get some pro audio 6.5s and focus all your amp power to a few quality drivers that will sound 10x better and way louder than all your current speakers combined. With what you have it just destroys any hope of a good soundstage with too much sh*t going on and no way to time align the drivers properly.

Power split between a lot of drivers is not anywhere as optimal as a fully powered driver. Plus you have major cancellation with tweets everywhere thats why you cant hear anything, all the sound waves are fighting against eachother. Basically getting negative output and negative sound quality. In scientific terms its called phase cancellation and its a real thing.

Your head unit's capabilities are near zero, cant expect to achieve any real soundstage with that head unit sorry to say. Start off with a proper head unit like a pioneer 80 prs aka holy grail of head units under 1000$ or even some of the kenwood double dins like the ddx 393 which has time alignment and stage EQ

With speakers, get a high sensitivity driver like crescendo UN 6.5s along with a pair of super tweets (if you really like strong highs) if not, then silk domes with at least 92 db sensitivity rating will work fine.

Those lanzar tweets are lying about all their specs btw. Not even a real 86 db sensitivity rating.

Proper speaker positioning, crossover points, Time alignment and a good EQ is what gives you proper soundstage. Coaxials never belong in this equation.

 
I'd honestly get rid of all of your gear and start new. Get quality drivers, tweets by the A pillars or sail panels, get some pro audio 6.5s and focus all your amp power to a few quality drivers that will sound 10x better and way louder than all your current speakers combined. With what you have it just destroys any hope of a good soundstage with too much sh*t going on and no way to time align the drivers properly.
Power split between a lot of drivers is not anywhere as optimal as a fully powered driver. Plus you have major cancellation with tweets everywhere thats why you cant hear anything, all the sound waves are fighting against eachother. Basically getting negative output and negative sound quality. In scientific terms its called phase cancellation and its a real thing.

Your head unit's capabilities are near zero, cant expect to achieve any real soundstage with that head unit sorry to say. Start off with a proper head unit like a pioneer 80 prs aka holy grail of head units under 1000$ or even some of the kenwood double dins like the ddx 393 which has time alignment and stage EQ

With speakers, get a high sensitivity driver like crescendo UN 6.5s along with a pair of super tweets (if you really like strong highs) if not, then silk domes with at least 92 db sensitivity rating will work fine.

Those lanzar tweets are lying about all their specs btw. Not even a real 86 db sensitivity rating.

Proper speaker positioning, crossover points, Time alignment and a good EQ is what gives you proper soundstage. Coaxials never belong in this equation.
I really appreciate your quick, detailed reply on this. You sound like you know what you are talking about. So the fact that I have so many tweeters actually cancels out the highs? Wow I never thought about it that way but it certainly makes sense now. Since the holes are cut, I really need to keep the 6x9 sizes front and rear. What about this: Cutting the wires to the kick panel and rear deck tweeters and replacing the door panel tweeters with something quality? They are mounted at the base of the a-pillars already. Would this bring everything forward and upwards? Should I replace the 4" dash coaxials with a midbass driver? The amp seems okay. It is loud enough, just can't EQ my way out of this mess.

I really don't want to throw everything away as you can tell.

 
I really appreciate your quick, detailed reply on this. You sound like you know what you are talking about. So the fact that I have so many tweeters actually cancels out the highs? Wow I never thought about it that way but it certainly makes sense now. Since the holes are cut, I really need to keep the 6x9 sizes front and rear. What about this: Cutting the wires to the kick panel and rear deck tweeters and replacing the door panel tweeters with something quality? They are mounted at the base of the a-pillars already. Would this bring everything forward and upwards? Should I replace the 4" dash coaxials with a midbass driver? The amp seems okay. It is loud enough, just can't EQ my way out of this mess.
I really don't want to throw everything away as you can tell.
you can make it work but disable anything on the rear deck, absolutely nothing back there. Definitely swap out the head unit, no way around that. What you plan requires multiple channels of output, the main thing here is you need to be able to control each mid, midbass and tweeter seperately. However what you are doing is just full range upon full range which is a disaster. Each driver needs to specialize in its job. Each driver needs to be time aligned.

Here's a simple explanation of what i mean with TIME ALIGNMENT. your left side is closer than your right side speakers. So you will hear the left side a lot more and it'll just sound like noise rather than any real sound stage. Time alignment delays the left side so it plays a little bit after the right side which makes both sound waves reach your ears at the same time thus recreating a phantom centerstage on the dash. You need to be able to do this with EACH driver you run. If you have a kick panel mid and a dash coaxial, this cannot work because they are different distances and locations and they will be sharing the same channel which means you cannot properly time align them.

This is why fewer is better. Unless you are willing to shell out a 600 dollar Digital sound processor with 8 channels of output, its best to get rid of your dash speakers or kick panel speakers as well. Make a choice.

the pioneer 80 prs is 3 way network capable meaning it can control low aka subwoofer, mid and high. Meaning the optimal configuration is 1 pair of midrange/midbass and one pair of tweeter. IT has active crossovers which means you can choose any crossover point you need along with the slope for a perfect blend between mid and tweeter. To perfect that blend more, the head unit has speaker level adjustments which basically is a fine tune output control for tweets and mids so you can completely bring the sound stage up by making the tweet a bit stronger or the mid a bit weaker. Then you can time align the drivers and recreate the centerstage. THen for the cherry on top, a 16 band EQ which further raises and expands the soundstage bringing out every detail possible.

When you are done, you should be able to hear the singer dead center, instruments like guitar and bass, piano will all be in their respective place on the dash. Drums behind the singer able to sweep across the dash. Its not listening to music anymore, its seeing music live. If someone is walking across the room in the recording, you'll basically be able to see it through sound.

Needless to say, without that SQ head unit and running the proper amount of speakers, none of this will be possible. Best you will achieve is what a cheap pair of earbuds will sound like. A glob of sound, no soundstage, no detail or clarity.

If you want to run a lot of speakers, you can gut your doors and do two 8 or 10 inch midbass in each door on a big 2 channel amp while getting powerful tweeters on a moderate sized amp. You really dont want a lot of tweeters in your car. Best to just have one good set.

So 80 prs

6x9s on rear channel, crossed over around 2.5khz to 3.5khz low pass

tweeters on the front channel high passed anywhere thats needed to achieve a blend with the mids

 
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Blown Camaro

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