Sound quality question

[hondarider 10+ year member]

Ok this is gonna be hard to explain but i'm gonna give it a try. If the goal in a sound quality system is to reproduce the music as closely as possible to the original sound then when you use several different external amplifiers each kind of speaker (mids, tweets, subs) would have a different amount of power. So how could you reproduce the sound the way it was recorded if the output of each type of speaker varies so much? (different efficiencies and amounts of power) I guess what i'm saying is that how can you keep the same proportion of different sounds (like the proportion of the output level of the mids compared to the output level of the subs) at the same level they were recorded at when your using external amplifiers?

I don't know if anyone is going to understand what i am trying to say or not.

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[hondarider 10+ year member]

I'll give an example: If on a song theres a sound lets say 1000hz that when recorded was 110 dB and then immediately after that a 40 hz note was played at 115 dB the original music.

Then if when you were playing that song in your car and lets say you have 100 watts per side on you front components and you have 1000 watts on your subs. So when you played that same song from above you system make the 1000 hz note at 110 dB and your subs make the following 40 hz note at 120 dB. how could you match it up to get the correct proportion?

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

O I guess what i'm saying is that how can you keep the same proportion of different sounds (like the proportion of the output level of the mids compared to the output level of the subs) at the same level they were recorded at when your using external amplifiers?

Through proper tuning and installation.

Keep in mind that just because you have a 1kw amplifier (for example), it does not mean you are necessarily going to be using the entire 1kw of available power.

 

[SpasticGramps 10+ year member]

Bass knob??

With the emphasis on making lots of noise and SPL not very many peoples systems will be in proprotion. Their sub bass will be more pronounced and even in some bad cases completely drown out their midbass and midrange. Use your EQ or design a completely SQ oriented system.

 

[hondarider 10+ year member]

Ya i know you can adjust them by ear to what sounds best to you by turning down the gain or using a bass knob but i was wondering if there was a ways to do it accuarately?

 

[Rich B 5,000+ posts]

Music isnt a sine wave where all frequencies are expected to be reproduced at the same db's.

For instance, no one would want to hear a tweeter @ 110db's, but with lower mid range and bass that wouldnt be unusual in a decent car setup.

Another way of looking at it is that large diameter drivers (subs/midbass) require greater amp power to reach the same relative sound volume as smaller drivers, so thats how a proper setup with multiple amplifiers are done.

Make sense?

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

in sound quality you want the music to be at eyelevel and as if the sound is coming from the middle of your hood distance like a concert almost. imaging is the key. it can be done.

 

[hondarider 10+ year member]

Well i understand that subs need more power than tweets and mids. But if you had 100 watts rms going to 1 mid and 1 tweet with a sensitivity of 92 dB (assuming all sensitivitys were obtained using the same method) using a passive crossover how much power would be the correct amout (proportionaly) for a sub with a sensitivity of 88 dB? I am not reffereing to any specific equipment just giving an example.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Ya i know you can adjust them by ear to what sounds best to you by turning down the gain or using a bass knob but i was wondering if there was a ways to do it accuarately?

Using an RTA will let you know if your system is overemphasizing any frequencies.

This is the device most professionals use to aid in properly adjusting the equalizer, properly level match the system, help select proper xover points, etc.

 

[Beat_Dominator 5,000+ posts]

x2, RTA does it.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Using an RTA will let you know if your system is overemphasizing any frequencies.

Just to clarify a little bit here....the RTA will show you the frequency response anomolies of your system, such as overemphasis of certain frequencies such as in your example of a system that was a little too bass heavy.

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

Ok this is gonna be hard to explain but i'm gonna give it a try. If the goal in a sound quality system is to reproduce the music as closely as possible to the original sound then when you use several different external amplifiers each kind of speaker (mids, tweets, subs) would have a different amount of power. So how could you reproduce the sound the way it was recorded if the output of each type of speaker varies so much? (different efficiencies and amounts of power) I guess what i'm saying is that how can you keep the same proportion of different sounds (like the proportion of the output level of the mids compared to the output level of the subs) at the same level they were recorded at when your using external amplifiers?
I don't know if anyone is going to understand what i am trying to say or not.

It is in my opinion that you blend all the components in the system to make up the entire recorded range of music.

With that said, even though you have 75 watts going to your mids and 600 going to your sub, this doesn't necessarily mean that you will have an over powering sub stage. It takes more power to reproduce lower toned sound. The lower the more power required to get the same decibel as a higher one.

Also pointed out you will not always have the full amount of power running all the time. Music is dynamic, it can be as little as a few watts all the way up to the amps full potential for power. This isn't a bad thing, this is where the extra power helps you keep the system sounding good and getting the volume levels you desire.

IMO, a sound quality vehicle/setup will reproduce the reference material (CD) as the original producer desired it to be. With this usually comes problems. I have found that many people don't really like the flat response setup curves you get from EQing. They desire a few peaks and or dips in their systems. There is nothing wrong with this, it is their personal tastes. However, if you are going to compete, you need to keep in mind that you may have to encounter an RTA to score you. This can take points away from the system...eventhough it may sound great.

Imaging and staging...

IMO you should be able to close your eyes and imagine you are in a concert or in front of a really good home theater setup. Wide sound up to your eye level. Not in your face, but at somewhat of a distance (this is where the on your hood comes into play). I also believe that you should be able to tell if an instrument or voice is closer or further away from another. For example...If you have a singer in the center of the stage, with instruments surrounding, the backup vocals usually are recorded at a lower level with a open and distant feel. You need to setup your system to be able to recreate this. Proper staging and EQing will drastically help this.

Finally, it really all comes down to your listening tastes. If you like the low end bumped up a few by all means do it. SQ is and always will be subjective. We all know what sounds good to our ears, but subtle differences may be liked or hated by others.

 

[SpasticGramps 10+ year member]

Thats the cool thing about the RF 360.2 EQ. Its bluetooth operated so you can save your Main settings and the adjust the EQ to give you a flat response on an RTA and save those settings. All you have to do is load whichever one you want from your Palm OS device and BAM everythings set. Switching back and forth takes seconds.

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

Thats the cool thing about the RF 360.2 EQ. Its bluetooth operated so you can save your Main settings and the adjust the EQ to give you a flat response on an RTA and save those settings. All you have to do is load whichever one you want from your Palm OS device and BAM everythings set. Switching back and forth takes seconds.

The RF unit isnt the only one with memory. The P9, h701, and a few other combo's can do it without a palm or loading times. Mine is 2 buttons to choose between 5 different memory settings.

Also, look for harmon cardon, pioneer, and a few other names to stup up in the processor field...new stuff from them is on the way.

 

[SpasticGramps 10+ year member]

That's pretty sweet. I didn't know of any others with memory.