screws?

[wasted ink 10+ year member]

orly? What about the thread you made about it. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=362296

i was thinking the same exact thing when i saw this thread.. but it was late, and i thought i might have been wrong.

 

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

as long as the joint is clamped while the glue fully cures, theres no possibiltity of that happening. i know exactly where youre coming from though. if somehting is going to break (and this has been proven) the wood will break before the joint (and not the paper surface ripping away)

Idk, maybe you get different MDF where you're from than I get, but I'd have to disagree. Go take two pieces of wood, make a joint, let it cure for a couple days, stand on it with it like this: V, so that there is outward pressure on the joint. It will break (assuming its big enough to give you leverage), and it will most likely rip a layer off of the mdf on one or both sides of the joint

Now, in an actual box, one thing that makes it much more solid is the structural support of the other pieces of the box. when you've got wood connected with strong joints like this on all edges, the complete product is very sturdy, but the individal joints alone are not as strong as people seem to think, due to the ratio of the size of the boards to the surface area of the joints

 

[wasted ink 10+ year member]

Idk, maybe you get different MDF where you're from than I get, but I'd have to disagree. Go take two pieces of wood, make a joint, let it cure for a couple days, stand on it with it like this: V, so that there is outward pressure on the joint. It will break (assuming its big enough to give you leverage), and it will most likely rip a layer off of the mdf on one or both sides of the joint
Now, in an actual box, one thing that makes it much more solid is the structural support of the other pieces of the box. when you've got wood connected with strong joints like this on all edges, the complete product is very sturdy, but the individal joints alone are not as strong as people seem to think, due to the ratio of the size of the boards to the surface area of the joints

youre absolutely right, and i agree.. when i posted that earlier, i meant in the application of a completed box. i should have clarified, just a misunderstanding.

everything you said is correct and very accurate... and im actually impressed someone else around here takes the time to understand things from this point of view..

 

[BobbyDD 10+ year member]

Idk, maybe you get different MDF where you're from than I get, but I'd have to disagree. Go take two pieces of wood, make a joint, let it cure for a couple days, stand on it with it like this: V, so that there is outward pressure on the joint. It will break (assuming its big enough to give you leverage), and it will most likely rip a layer off of the mdf on one or both sides of the jointNow, in an actual box, one thing that makes it much more solid is the structural support of the other pieces of the box. when you've got wood connected with strong joints like this on all edges, the complete product is very sturdy, but the individal joints alone are not as strong as people seem to think, due to the ratio of the size of the boards to the surface area of the joints

If you do that it's going to break whether it has screws and/or nails in it or not.

 

[wasted ink 10+ year member]

If you do that it's going to break whether it has screws and/or nails in it or not.

youre right, but he wasnt trying to prove that screws would hold that load. he was showing the way a glued joint will break.

 

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

If you do that it's going to break whether it has screws and/or nails in it or not.

Obviously. But don't you think having a screw extend 2 inches into the joint will help it last a little longer?

My main point is that I think we've sort of over-stated the reality of what a properly glued joint will sustain. We give the impression that you could do what I described, and the joint wouldn't actually come apart, but one of the boards would snap in half, which is just unrealistic.

Personally I don't know the details and facts about the added stress that many claim the screws can add in the wood, so I cannot state with certainty that it is the best thing to do.

In all reality though, the majority of boxes would be able to hold up with just screw and silicone for longer than most people seem to keep a single box/setup in their car. Still, obviously it's a better idea to go ahead and take the time to glue the box properly, I am not arguing against that.

 

[BobbyDD 10+ year member]

Obviously. But don't you think having a screw extend 2 inches into the joint will help it last a little longer?
My main point is that I think we've sort of over-stated the reality of what a properly glued joint will sustain. We give the impression that you could do what I described, and the joint wouldn't actually come apart, but one of the boards would snap in half, which is just unrealistic.

Personally I don't know the details and facts about the added stress that many claim the screws can add in the wood, so I cannot state with certainty that it is the best thing to do.

In all reality though, the majority of boxes would be able to hold up with just screw and silicone for longer than most people seem to keep a single box/setup in their car. Still, obviously it's a better idea to go ahead and take the time to glue the box properly, I am not arguing against that.

It does seem logical that it would be a little stronger with screws too.