Saudi court sentences 75-year-old woman to lashes

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

Bottom line.

I don't care.

 

[mattf 5,000+ posts]

Bottom line.

I don't care.

Good for you.

 

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

Hope you get lashes.

 

[mattf 5,000+ posts]

Hope you get lashes.

Well I don't plan on going to the middle east so I don't have much to worry about.

 

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

It's the family's job to control the daugher, not the gov't. And I certainly don't want the priest telling me what is and is not legal with the power of the state behind him.
Massachusets used to be an established Christian state. The priest could order the sherrif to your home to arrest you for not attending sunday mass. We did away with estabished religioun because it was a horrible idea and the enemy of the people. It can only lead to abuse.

Gov't is too petty for religion. Gov't is for running sewage systems and taking out the trash. You do not need the 10 commandments to sweep the streets. Theocratic gov'ts are evil pretending to be pious.

The family HAS no control over the daughter unless she is very atypical. Society controls us far more than any parental guidance ever will. It's only natural that we see people like us and feel they are our friends, and are easily influenced by them. How many of you grew up with morals because your parents told you to? The reality is, in America, we've taught people "to hell with morals, who cares? Be free, have fun, spend money, eat, have ***, drink, etc." There is no room in a society like this for young people who DO have faith in God or in any kind of moral beliefs, because everything around them continuously pushes them to "forget about all that crap".

We are a society of pimps and hoes, dealers and fiends, whether those persona's are blatantly obvious in some, or subtly apparent when you take a step back and look at things in others. Is this what we are proud of? Is this the "freedom" that the forefathers envisioned for us? With every generation our children are concerned less and less with learning, or anything of value, and more and more focused on ***, money, and fitting into one of the categories mentioned above. We idolize people because of their ****** appeal, but don't give two fvcks about someone who actually DID something great.

Religious people envision a society where morals take precedence over 'sin/religious crime/whatever you want to call it'. It is absolutely no mystery how good and religious people could want the laws of a society to reflect this. To a Muslim, to a strong Christian, to a strong Jew, American society is disgusting. It is repulsive in it's nature, to the point of developing a hate towards it. Nobody hates you for your freedoms, they hate you for what you've chosen to do with them.

Iran hangs young men for being gay because they wear tight t-shirts. Relgion is the excuse, they're really just evil murdering savages. They will burn in hell for thier evil. So will the saudi kings, the Islamic Peoples council, and the Taliban.

Indeed. Like I said, it has nothing to do with Islam. They use Islam to justify it, as a mask to show the rest of the world. When Americans believe in what they are saying, and believe that Islam is the problem, Americans are allowing the terrorists and murderers to convince you of what they want you to think. Congrats.

 

[wu36ca 10+ year member]

Iran hangs young men for being gay because they wear tight t-shirts.

Hahaha, if only they saw the way their people dress over here they would commit genocide against their own people. You would swear Armani Exchange's larget shirt size is extra small.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Christians didn't found the US; deists did. Possibly.

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

The family HAS no control over the daughter unless she is very atypical. Society controls us far more than any parental guidance ever will. It's only natural that we see people like us and feel they are our friends, and are easily influenced by them. How many of you grew up with morals because your parents told you to? The reality is, in America, we've taught people "to hell with morals, who cares? Be free, have fun, spend money, eat, have ***, drink, etc." There is no room in a society like this for young people who DO have faith in God or in any kind of moral beliefs, because everything around them continuously pushes them to "forget about all that crap".
We are a society of pimps and hoes, dealers and fiends, whether those persona's are blatantly obvious in some, or subtly apparent when you take a step back and look at things in others. Is this what we are proud of? Is this the "freedom" that the forefathers envisioned for us? With every generation our children are concerned less and less with learning, or anything of value, and more and more focused on ***, money, and fitting into one of the categories mentioned above. We idolize people because of their ****** appeal, but don't give two fvcks about someone who actually DID something great.

Maybe your daughter is out ******* cawk at 14 for cash, but not all are. "Moral degeneration" is global. It's not just America, it's not just secular societies. There are lots of kids that grow up right and don't start ******* cawk at 14. Maybe not in your 'hood, but in other areas it's common. Go visit the Amish communities in Pennselvania, Minnesota, etc,. They live very pious lives, without the govt' enforcing thier religion for them. Gov't forced religion will not stop the 14 year old ho's in your hood from ******* cawk. I've seen the kids of these saudi and jordanian royal families and they are the same nintendo playing, coke snorting, dvck ******* spolied brats as Americans or europeans.

Religious people envision a society where morals take precedence over 'sin/religious crime/whatever you want to call it'. It is absolutely no mystery how good and religious people could want the laws of a society to reflect this. To a Muslim, to a strong Christian, to a strong Jew, American society is disgusting. It is repulsive in it's nature, to the point of developing a hate towards it. Nobody hates you for your freedoms, they hate you for what you've chosen to do with them.

Indeed. Like I said, it has nothing to do with Islam. They use Islam to justify it, as a mask to show the rest of the world. When Americans believe in what they are saying, and believe that Islam is the problem, Americans are allowing the terrorists and murderers to convince you of what they want you to think. Congrats.

It has everything to do with shariah. Which I agree has nothing to do with religion. It's about a few people controling others. The wealthy in SA or Iran support the brutal regiems of shariah and islamic rule, then run off to Baharain to party like sodom&gemhorra.

I never said Islam is the problem. It's not. Religious fanatics who use religion as an excuse to commit thier attrocities are the problme. Sharia institutionalizes that brutality. Sharia can never be moral or lead to a better society anymore than letting the KKK govern Missisppi thru thier interpretation of the bible. No matter what happens, you can bet it won't be good.

The salem witch trials in colonial America is exactly the same evil as the Sharia councils of today. They commit evil in the name of religion, but it's not religion, it's just evil people allowed to wield the power of gov't.

 

[funkyab 10+ year member]

It has everything to do with shariah. Which I agree has nothing to do with religion. It's about a few people controling others. The wealthy in SA or Iran support the brutal regiems of shariah and islamic rule, then run off to Baharain to party like sodom&gemhorra.

I never said Islam is the problem. It's not. Religious fanatics who use religion as an excuse to commit thier attrocities are the problme. Sharia institutionalizes that brutality. Sharia can never be moral or lead to a better society anymore than letting the KKK govern Missisppi thru thier interpretation of the bible. No matter what happens, you can bet it won't be good.

The salem which trials in colonial America is exactly the same evil as the Sharia councils of today. They commit evil in the name of religion, but it's not religion, it's just evil people allowed to wield the power of gov't.

^^^^ Gonna agree here!

 

[perfecxionX 10+ year member]

And people who practice this so-called "extremist" Islam are doing things that real Islam, that Muhammad himself would have denounced and stood against...how is it that their 'biblical' basis is in any way meaningful? Other than because of ignorance?
How does whether it's being used today or not matter? If there were no more terrorists then Islam would no longer be a bad/violent religion in the eyes of those who don't understand it? Did Christianity change when the KKK came into or dropped out of power?

I defend Islam. I do not even recognize this "radicalism" as being Islam. I see a lot of terrible people who claim to be Islamic, and I see Islam. Just the same as a real Christian or someone who knows Christianity see's the KKK and doesn't even recognize them as being religious in any way. It is the same thing flipped, and it's incredible that so many of you still don't see that.

Its not that their aren’t parallels in the history of Christianity, i dont know of many people that would disagree with that. I was objecting specifically to your KKK analogy, and that’s why I suggested the Inquisitor one as being much more similar.

I don’t criticize religion for every bad thing a religious person has ever done. I don’t even criticize religion for every bad thing that’s ever been done in the name of religion. I only criticize it for the things that could have only been done because of religious beliefs. A good example in Islam is the riots over those Danish cartoons. 120 some people were killed in those riots over Muslim anger about reproducing the images of Mohammad. Obviously there are all sorts of reasons for why people do the things they do; good or bad. But religion is one of them. There is no denying that. And as ive said before the Quran as well as the Bible are full of all sorts of divisive nonsense that are exactly where people get ideas about homosexuality being an abomination, or martyrdom guaranteeing eternity in paradise. Its a problem!

And its a problem when we continue to lie to ourselves about the causes of these evils out of political correctness. You may not recognize al-queda as "right" Islam, but you have repeatedly taken every chance you can on this forum to do nothing but make excuses for people who will kill themselves while attempting to blow up an elementary school or hospital. And the thing that really scares me is that your type appears to be the majority in the Islamic world.

You do not understand that under Shariah law in a true Islamic country, you are only creating real government laws that outline the beliefs of the population anyway. These serve as guidelines, reminders, and preventors.
I can think of a lot of Christians who would be glad to see a ****** or adulterer/etc be severely physically punished for these acts. To Islam, and to God (according to ANY Judeo-Christian-Islamic religion), fornication is seen as a serious crime and a serious sin, just as is murder or robbery/etc. It is only logical that these crimes be punished just as any other crime is. The fact that secular society does not feel there is anything wrong with having *** all day every day with whoever and whenever you want, does not make it automatically an ok thing. That is your opinion. Why do you get to decide what is a crime and what isn't for countries other than our own?

I think it's safe to say most Christians would like to see Christian values and Christian rules implemented into the government...so why is it so wrong for Muslims to feel the same? Just because pretty much the only country right now that has strict sharia law is also injust and corrupt, both in its use of it and its other actions separate from it, means that sharia law is the problem?

So you think that law should be based on majority opinion? Was segregation in the south fine because an overwhelming majority of southerners supported it? There’s a reason why we don’t subject liberties to referendums in this country (and a reason why doing this in California was unconstitutional and unjust).

"It is of great importance in a republic not only to guard the society against the oppression of its rulers, but to guard one part of the society against the injustice of the other part. Different interests necessarily exist in different classes of citizens. If a majority be united by a common interest, the rights of the minority will be insecure." James Madison

Most people living in secular society DO believe that recreational *** is a bad thing. But we don’t give govt the power to outlaw it because we rightly believe that people do not have a right to tell others what they can or cant do if it harms no one but themselves.

There is a difference between fornication and ****. One is outlawed because it harms another person against their will. One is not outlawed because it is consensual between two people. So what if someone else's private *** life bothers you? How the hell does that give you a right to tell them how to live. What if i dont like Islam? I dont like little 17 year olds being brainwashed with medieval nonsense that stifles their own critical thinking and gives them an unusual predisposition for intolerance? Can we ban Islam because your representation of it makes me sick?

"The sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their number, is self-protection. That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinion of others, to do so would be wise, or even right... The only part of the conduct of anyone, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign." John Stuart MIll

And your stereotyping of American society and American women is just as bad, if not worse, than OP’s stereotyping of Islam. You really think all, most, or even a significant amount of young American girls are prostitutes? If you dont think your daughter should be swallowing strange penises then its up to you to raise her properly and teach here why this is a bad thing. You can even advise other people that it’s a bad thing. However you can not FORCE other people from doing such things

 

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

And your stereotyping of American society and American women is just as bad, if not worse, than OP’s stereotyping of Islam. You really think all, most, or even a significant amount of young American girls are prostitutes? If you dont think your daughter should be swallowing strange penises then its up to you to raise her properly and teach here why this is a bad thing. You can even advise other people that it’s a bad thing. However you can not FORCE other people from doing such things

Too tired to read everything and respond to everything but I wasn't saying they are 'prostitutes' rather 'hoes'. Which is pretty much accurate for the vast majority of them.

Also, how would a law against being a hoe (obviously not in those words), for example, be any different from any other law? Slavery is obviously immoral, as is treating someone differently for their skin color. What is immoral about punishing someone for doing something percieved as wrong? Murder is wrong according to the US, but only because we say it is. If you want to argue that it's because it's for protection of eachother where conviction of cheating or something wouldn't be...well...1. we have an *** load of laws that are no where near directly for protecting ourselves, and 2. You could argue that the emotional problems and pain inflicted by a cheating spouse are just as hurtful if not worse than physical abuse.

There are quite a few shariah laws I disagree with, but for the most part all they are is strict punishments for things we already pretend we dont condone and formerly have looked down upon.

You could even perhaps interpret (if you believed in God) that the stricter set of rules introduced in Islam, being the last installment of what religious people believe to be God's word on earth, are stricter because God saw that the first two times he asked us to behave we continued not acting right. Thus, prayer 5 times a day (this is so that God is an everyday all day part of your life, not just someone you sit think about once a week for an hour), stricter laws and rules, etc

 

[perfecxionX 10+ year member]

It has everything to do with shariah. Which I agree has nothing to do with religion. It's about a few people controling others. The wealthy in SA or Iran support the brutal regiems of shariah and islamic rule, then run off to Baharain to party like sodom&gemhorra.I never said Islam is the problem. It's not. Religious fanatics who use religion as an excuse to commit thier attrocities are the problme. Sharia institutionalizes that brutality. Sharia can never be moral or lead to a better society anymore than letting the KKK govern Missisppi thru thier interpretation of the bible. No matter what happens, you can bet it won't be good.

You don't think the quote i posted from the Quran was the religious inspiration for this Saudi sentence?

"24:2 The woman and the man guilty of illegal ****** intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allah, if you believe in Allah and Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment. "

 

[perfecxionX 10+ year member]

Too tired to read everything and respond to everything but I wasn't saying they are 'prostitutes' rather 'hoes'. Which is pretty much accurate for the vast majority of them.
Also, how would a law against being a hoe (obviously not in those words), for example, be any different from any other law? Slavery is obviously immoral, as is treating someone differently for their skin color. What is immoral about punishing someone for doing something percieved as wrong? Murder is wrong according to the US, but only because we say it is. If you want to argue that it's because it's for protection of eachother where conviction of cheating or something wouldn't be...well...1. we have an *** load of laws that are no where near directly for protecting ourselves, and 2. You could argue that the emotional problems and pain inflicted by a cheating spouse are just as hurtful if not worse than physical abuse.

There are quite a few shariah laws I disagree with, but for the most part all they are is strict punishments for things we already pretend we dont condone and formerly have looked down upon.

You could even perhaps interpret (if you believed in God) that the stricter set of rules introduced in Islam, being the last installment of what religious people believe to be God's word on earth, are stricter because God saw that the first two times he asked us to behave we continued not acting right. Thus, prayer 5 times a day (this is so that God is an everyday all day part of your life, not just someone you sit think about once a week for an hour), stricter laws and rules, etc

Dont respond if your not going to read the entire post your responding to. Especially if your going to say shit like this:

Pretty sure that's some of the worst reasoning I've ever seen come out of you btw...it doesn't even seem like you tried.

There’s a reason why we don’t subject liberties to majority opinion in this country

"It is of great importance in a republic not only to guard the society against the oppression of its rulers, but to guard one part of the society against the injustice of the other part. Different interests necessarily exist in different classes of citizens. If a majority be united by a common interest, the rights of the minority will be insecure." James Madison

"The sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their number, is self-protection. That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinion of others, to do so would be wise, or even right... The only part of the conduct of anyone, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign." John Stuart MIll

 

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

"The sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their number, is self-protection. That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinion of others, to do so would be wise, or even right... The only part of the conduct of anyone, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign." John Stuart MIll

Leaves a gigantic gray area unexplained, or just is pretty meaningless, considering practically anything could be argued to do harm to others. A man, smoking in the privacy of his own home not exposing it to anyone outside, is risking hurting his future potential children if he has any. Someone who is cheating risks mentally and emotionally harming their victim. Someone who is divorcing risks mentally and emotionally harming eachother as well as the children if there are any. Etc.

Where do we draw the line?

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

You don't think the quote i posted from the Quran was the religious inspiration for this Saudi sentence?

No. Lust for power and unrestrained evil are the inspiration for the saudi sentence. They could use the quran, bible or the boy scout handbook as the means of thier barbarism. What doesn't change is the evil bastards who do this kind of crap.

Burning a woman on a cross because shes a witch or hanging teens for being gay is the same evil. The book they're waving while they do it is irrelevent.