Religion?

[Fat_boy 10+ year member]

When and if you ever get to my level of intelligence, we'll have this conversation. So far you you fail.

Seeking divine intervention for the stutter now? Let me know how that works...oh and the link between science and religion for that little problem that riddles people...if you would please..

Religion is the greatest thing Evar..just ask the little catholic boys that trusted the priests..

 

[pilyin 10+ year member]

Serious question for the religious that I've not seen talked about anywhere;
From what I recall of Genesis, it deals primarily with the creation of "Earth" and those things on earth...animals, plants, sea creatures, and most importantly "man" (humans). Sure, there's the creation of light and stars and heaven....but most of the time is spent talking on Earth.

So, hypothetically speaking.......how would your faith be affected if it were indisputably discovered that there is life elsewhere in the universe? Would this affect your faith in any way? That god created life other than that on earth which (from my understanding) isn't outlined anywhere in the bible or fundamentally in your faith?

Would it matter if the life was just a simple single celled organism? What about intelligent life? Say....the intelligence of a dog? Or intelligence ten times that of the human race?

To answer you, I'm not really sure. I never really thought about it. You are correct that the bible does deal with mostly earth. I don't think that finding life elsewhere in the universe would really effect my belief. I think I would say that the bible deals with us because it was written for us and in the time it was written, the people would have had no idea what was being talked about if they started bringing up other galaxies and stuff. I really never thought about it, probably because I'm fairly sure it wont happen, but who knows? I've been wrong many times before.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Fat_boy 10+ year member]

Actually Im just trolling now, this topic has no point. I live my life to its fullest in my eyes I dont care what other people think. Is there a heaven...probably not, who cares. I saved lives and watched people die, it has a cool factor but that is where science has helped...people get a last prayer when they are about to die ( woohoo) ..science gives them a chance to further live their life in the event of something catastophic.

The Church is the biggest fking organized crime outfit there is period. Tax relief from the gov't and the biggest building on the street and they are going up everywhere. Local business has to rent or lease building while new churches pop up once a week and invite more old folks to venture out on sundays for Geriatric hour and keep everyone doing 25 mph in 50mph zone.

Lets not mention the early morning Bible thumpers telling me Im going to hell and I should save my soul..at my own fkn door..I tell em they have 3 seconds to run before I start clubbing them like baby seals.

Even though I was trolling earlier...I still don't trust a priest..hmmm...fking little kids is still wrong in my book...I dont care what the church believes in!!!

BTW: I need more popcorn...anymore room by thewarm and cozy fireplace?

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

To answer you, I'm not really sure. I never really thought about it. You are correct that the bible does deal with mostly earth. I don't think that finding life elsewhere in the universe would really effect my belief. I think I would say that the bible deals with us because it was written for us and in the time it was written, the people would have had no idea what was being talked about if they started bringing up other galaxies and stuff. I really never thought about it, probably because I'm fairly sure it wont happen, but who knows? I've been wrong many times before.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Thanks for indulging me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Follow up question;

Lets say we do find intelligent life......intelligence at least equivalent to that of humans with an evolved existence at least as long as humans. We begin communicating and find that they have no religion; No belief in god, no story equivalent to that of Jesus or Noah, no bible, no Moses or Mount Sinai and no commandments.

Would this affect your religion? What would this mean to you? Would this mean that we are more "loved" by god than them? Or simply that they are pure enough to have not (yet, at least) needed god's/Jesus' direct intervention? Would this possibly point you towards the possibility of there being no god? Or just that god has not shown himself to them yet?

I know....more things you've probably never thought about //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif But again, just curious //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Thinking back to my days in Christianity and what I was taught as well as have read both then and since I've more thoroughly pursued science......and these are some questions I've been pondering lately but haven't been able to really ask anyone.

 

[adio 5,000+ posts]

Thanks for indulging me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
Follow up question;

Lets say we do find intelligent life......intelligence at least equivalent to that of humans with an evolved existence at least as long as humans. We begin communicating and find that they have no religion; No belief in god, no story equivalent to that of Jesus or Noah, no bible, no Moses or Mount Sinai and no commandments.

Would this affect your religion? What would this mean to you? Would this mean that we are more "loved" by god than them? Or simply that they are pure enough to have not (yet, at least) needed god's/Jesus' direct intervention? Would this possibly point you towards the possibility of there being no god? Or just that god has not shown himself to them yet?

I know....more things you've probably never thought about //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif But again, just curious //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Thinking back to my days in Christianity and what I was taught as well as have read both then and since I've more thoroughly pursued science......and these are some questions I've been pondering lately but haven't been able to really ask anyone.

i'm on your wood squeakers.

i beleive in aliens, courteousy of the specials on the history channel. you know the thing that really convinced me??? i mean it was phenomenal!! i was watchin this special on the history channel and they showed this segment about ancient peoples who saw aliens and documented them. i'm talkin about people from like the year 1700 and back. there was no incentive for them to talk about aliens, no fame, tv time, money, etc. that wrote or drew what they saw and that was all there was to it.

i'm still somewhat religious though

i'll try to answer the bold though. i think the life forms would have a sense that what they see is not all there is . if they have 5 sense, like we do, i belive they would think there is something besides what they physically experience thru the senses. thats possibly why there is UFO flights by them. isn't that how religion and science starts off? what we see is not all there is.

as far god not revealing himself to them yet...... is a legit question, but something revealed itself to them. something that can't be explained, something outside of scientific knowledge and theories, but yet, very objective.

i don't think anyone or anything anywhere is too pure to be above a being that is considered all knowing, all powerful, omni-present. all is takes is a tragedy to bring some humility.

ok, thats all i can say, cause i feel myself gettin off track here

why do atheists rely so much on intellectual power?

 

[pilyin 10+ year member]

Thanks for indulging me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
Follow up question;

Lets say we do find intelligent life......intelligence at least equivalent to that of humans with an evolved existence at least as long as humans. We begin communicating and find that they have no religion; No belief in god, no story equivalent to that of Jesus or Noah, no bible, no Moses or Mount Sinai and no commandments.

Would this affect your religion? What would this mean to you? Would this mean that we are more "loved" by god than them? Or simply that they are pure enough to have not (yet, at least) needed god's/Jesus' direct intervention? Would this possibly point you towards the possibility of there being no god? Or just that god has not shown himself to them yet?

I know....more things you've probably never thought about //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif But again, just curious //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Thinking back to my days in Christianity and what I was taught as well as have read both then and since I've more thoroughly pursued science......and these are some questions I've been pondering lately but haven't been able to really ask anyone.

You are correct. I have never thought about it. Thing is, there are some races on earth that have yet to hear about Christianity (indian tribes and such), however even they normally believe in a higher power, so if we found some people somewhere else, I think I would categorize them as a group that hasn't heard about God, but I'm pretty sure even they would have some sort of religious belief.

However, if hypothetically they did have a history with a savior and similar story to our Jesus story, would it change your mind? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[elementxero 10+ year member]

It is very difficult to argue with a very narrow minded person that just call you names and doesn't really have anything.
1) I'm really not a hick. I don't live near any farms actually.

2) I went to public school throughout graduating from college with a very respectible GPA.

3) Being that I'm not inbred you should have no problem debating me without the petty name calling you resort to. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

4) Judging from your language and speech, I would say you really don't have the brains to call anyone dumb, let alone my wife. Also, I definitely wouldn't characterize her as lazy. She's actually a great wife.

5) I will not get mad no matter how many names you call me or my family on the internet, so really, calm down, try being respectful for once in you life, however I doubt you will, so name call away if it makes you feel better.

Anyways, to get on to what you said.

1) Man has a free will. If man didn't have a free will, there would be no point in living. If God began to interfere with the things that man does, that means there is no longer free will. If God forced someone to do something, than that is contradicting the free will that man was given. Just because there is a God's will, doesn't mean we do it all the time.

Because man has free will, he will do what he want and God will not stop him.

Also, God didn't find it just to heal my wife, he chose to do it because it would have an effect later in life. I don't know God's plan and don't pretend to so before you ask what effect it had other than on my life, I don't know.

2) Why does God care about us rather than all the stars and galaxies? Well, lets look at this from a Christian point of view, being that you asked it hypothetically as a Christian point of view question.

Jesus died for the sins of man. Man brings glory (or shame in some instances sadly) to God. Stars, Galaxies, etc. don't really bring glory to God. They were made to show off the glory of God so he really doesn't need to worry about them. They're just decorations. If he cared enough to send his son to die for our sins, I would say he cares enough about what's going on in our lives.

As to why do somethings happen so some people. I can't answer that. Ask Him.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

3) You state God does not answer prayers. Try sometime. You might be surprised because I've seen quite a few answered in mine and other peoples lives. The only thing is, God wont be held hostage by someone saying, if you don't do this, I wont believe you exist.

4) What happened to Jesus's body?

Not going to indulge in this because it will never really end but let me say two things.

1- Name calling is what the internet is for, and it makes me laugh to be insensitive.

2- All I needed to see in that whole wall of text was that you think god created everything in the universe as a decoration for mankind. That speaks far more about your perspective than any amount of explanation you could provide (or insults I could hurl for that matter).

 

[Pootie 10+ year member]

ZOMG, teh white devil.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/satan.gif.9c6a335ed7aeeed3ee273e573f1fcaac.gif

 

[PollyCranopolis 10+ year member]

Christian-Protestant. Praise Jesus.

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

8 lb 6 oz baby jesus?

And to squeak, religion and belief in a higher being has been around long before Christianity. Im sure you know that, but in that instance it probably wouldnt be too much of a stretch to think that a form of living being from somewhere else may also believe in a higher power? Once again no one really knows. :shrugs.

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

Aetheist here. There just isn't enough proof for me to believe. I need scientific proof to believe in something...........not faith alone.

What really has turned me off of religion these days is the way politicians (mainly republicants) use it for political gain. It's enough to make you hurl. They say they're pro-life but yet they do NOTHING about the abortion issue while in office. In a way, religion and politics are one in the same. Complete HYPOCRISY.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

However, if hypothetically they did have a history with a savior and similar story to our Jesus story, would it change your mind? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Likely not, at least not in and of itself //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

As was pointed, even those without Christianity have formed some sort of supernatural and/or spiritual explanation for that which they are ignorant. And if these beings are as similar to humans as we've hypothesized, I wouldn't find it highly unlikely that their religious evolution had occurred similar to ours.......progressing from some form(s) of polytheism to monotheism. (You know what they say....the next logical progression is from monotheism to atheism //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif ) And throughout the various monotheistic religions here on Earth, all surround some main, central "earthly" figure that guides them to their god.

So would I find it unlikely that they would have a plot similar to ours? No, not really. Though I'd certainly be interested in learning more about the history and cultural transitions that lead them down that path.

FWIW, I'm presently about half way through Lee Strobel's The Case for Faith //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I'm rather underwhelmed and unimpressed by it thus far.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Once again no one really knows. :shrugs.

That's why it's called hypothetical silly //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[BoomBoomBoy 10+ year member]

Got faith? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

 

[adio 5,000+ posts]

Likely not, at least not in and of itself //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
As was pointed, even those without Christianity have formed some sort of supernatural and/or spiritual explanation for that which they are ignorant. And if these beings are as similar to humans as we've hypothesized, I wouldn't find it highly unlikely that their religious evolution had occurred similar to ours.......progressing from some form(s) of polytheism to monotheism. (You know what they say....the next logical progression is from monotheism to atheism //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif ) And throughout the various monotheistic religions here on Earth, all surround some main, central "earthly" figure that guides them to their god.

So would I find it unlikely that they would have a plot similar to ours? No, not really. Though I'd certainly be interested in learning more about the history and cultural transitions that lead them down that path.

FWIW, I'm presently about half way through Lee Strobel's The Case for Faith //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I'm rather underwhelmed and unimpressed by it thus far.

what don't you like about it? i thought it was pretty good, an easy read, but u may need something on a higher level. that strobel book is mainly like a book for beginners. try ravi zachariasm alister mcgrath, r.c. sproul ( may be too light for u) or josh mcdowell