Reciever/Amp Crossover Question

[jatyro91]

I am completely illiterate when it comes to audio terminology. I know I like things to sound good, that's the extent of my knowledge.

I've had a set of JL Audio 12's and a Boss R2000M Monoblock Amp for a while now, and decided I needed to finally upgrade my HU. Because I was using my factory radio, I've had the amp connected to the back left speaker with a convertor box. Now that i'm replacing the HU, I'm going to run the amp to the stereo.

The guy who sold me the 12's said my amp's crossover frequency should be set at about 80hz as the basic standard for a pair of JLs. Now, looking into the HU I'm buying (Pioneer AVHX2700BS) I've learned it has built in subwoofer crossover points that are predetermined at 50hz, 63zh, 125hz and 200hz.

So my questions are.

Are these two different crossovers the same thing?

What should I know about setting them?

Do they need to be set at the same Hz?

Suggested setting for mostly rap music or metal?

Please don't tell me to listen by ear because for whatever reason I only know what sounds good and what sounds super bad but rarely in between.

Current Set-up

Boss Riot Series R2000M Monoblock

Using the RCA Cables from a Boss 8-gauge Amp Kit

4g Power Wire and Ground

2 JL Audio (Assuming W0 series, bought them from an authorized dealer already installed in a ported box)

Along with the new HU, I'll be replacing all 4 of my speakers with Pioneer D-series (2x6.5 & 2x6.9s)

No 4 channel amp as of yet.

Any other suggestions for my set up would be lovely, too.

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[fly_marlin]

Welcome, hopefully what you read here will allow you to save some money and sound better at that. Not sure which JL subs you have, but I would upgrade the amp first because I doubt you're getting the full potential out of the subs with that amp.

The x-over points you listed are incomplete and are indeed: 50, 63, 80, 100, 125, 160, 200Hz. I'd leave the HU x-over point at 200Hz and use the x-over on the amp instead as it's probably a variable one. I do recommend leaving it at 80Hz (on the amp) to begin with and listen to some of your favorite songs and adjust lower or higher according to your liking. That really is how it works.

I also don't know how loud your subs get. With 6.5" and 6x9, the speakers will be pretty **** loud. I have first hand experience with those 6.5" pioneers - they're beefy and loud. Not the best imaging nor stage, nor can you expect that from a set that's $100 on amazon. For the price, I am hard pressed to find a better set though. Also, having huge speakers in the back will move the sound stage to the back as well - ask yourself whether you really want that. A lot of us on here, including myself, only have front speakers installed. You save money by not getting "rear fill" and you can get a better front set instead. Your call. Also, whenever asking for advice, always stage your goals and budget.

 

[jatyro91]

Welcome, hopefully what you read here will allow you to save some money and sound better at that. Not sure which JL subs you have, but I would upgrade the amp first because I doubt you're getting the full potential out of the subs with that amp.

I bought them, with the box, from an authorized dealer last year for $325. Got a discount because I bought it as a set. From the pictures, and the price I'm guessing they are JL Audio 12' W0V2's but I can't be sure. Any suggestions for amp?

I also don't know how loud your subs get.

I currently have 2 JVC's CSV 6.5s, and 2 JVC CSV 6x9s. They were like $60 and $80 when I got them, but only meant to get rid of my stock upgrades as I was mostly interested in getting subs. It's worth mentioning I drive a 2006 Chevy Impala. The seats do not fold down, and the subs are in the trunk. As of now, the subs completely over power everything. Because it's an older car (not to mention how big it is) the entire car shakes and vibrate. Most songs I can only have them up half way unless I want nothing but bass and lyrics. The vibration, I'm sure, doesn't help since it's an older car. I'm hush matting the trunk and eventually will work elsewhere to try and help with that. I'm also hoping that having them hooked up to a stereo that has an EQ and it's own Crossover will help make the bass more on point than the convertor box I have.

With 6.5" and 6x9, the speakers will be pretty **** loud. I have first hand experience with those 6.5" pioneers - they're beefy and loud. Not the best imaging nor stage, nor can you expect that from a set that's $100 on amazon. For the price, I am hard pressed to find a better set though. Also, having huge speakers in the back will move the sound stage to the back as well - ask yourself whether you really want that. A lot of us on here, including myself, only have front speakers installed. You save money by not getting "rear fill" and you can get a better front set instead. Your call. Also, whenever asking for advice, always stage your goals and budget.

To sum it up, I'm a 23 year old music enthusiast without the technological knowledge of any of it. My computer speakers are actually recording monitors. Clarity, chest pounding bass, and disrupting everyone else at a stop light are my goals. I couldn't imagine just having two speakers in the front and leaving my rear deck empty...does the sound still feel full throughout the car that way?

Is it also worth upgrading the RCA cables?

 

[fly_marlin]

It's definitely not as loud throughout the car, but then again - I don't care. I have pretty high power handling components, not many handle more power than that at 150W and feeding them ample power. For me, the sound stage is in the front, so I definitely never miss the rear fill. I think it should be pretty easy to get 6.5" coaxials in the back. I'm just so against having huge speakers in the back. Then again, when you get "super loud," it doesn't really matter where the sound stage is. That's why drivers designed for SPL are different that ones designed for SQ. If you're already happy with the bass, leave the subs and amp as is.

Sounds like you just need an amp for the fronts. This should be more than sufficient for those speakers:

MB Quart DA1-600.4 650W 4-Channel Discus Series Full Range Car Amplifier

 

[jatyro91]

Yeah, I'd like to eventually do components but with my limited knowledge (plus what I've heard about replacing tweeters in my car and my limited options in tweeter size) it doesn't seem like it's worth the effort. Especially since I can't afford professional install and I'm going off of tutorials, and manuals.

 

[fly_marlin]

Coaxials would be fine.

 

[jatyro91]

Received the speakers yesterday, and got them semi-installed (Need to put the car back together). They sound slightly better than my JVCs, but I know that's because they're hooked up to the factory stereo and no amp.

The amp you linked, that will work for hooking all 4 speakers up? Or do you recommend that just for the 6.5's, and a bigger one if I plan on installing all 4?

My amp currently runs off 4G, and whatever 4 channel I get I plan on running 4 gauge. Is there a distribution block you recommend? Or do you recommend a different installation method?

 

[fly_marlin]

I don't know exactly what the boss amp eats up in terms of current, but I'm guessing less than half of what's advertised. You can do another 4awg run.

 

[jatyro91]

Alright, so do I just add another 4g to my battery? Or am I better off getting a 4g in 4gx2 out distribution block? Or should I go 0/1G to 4g x2?

I was checking out the amp you suggested. It'll be my first 4 channel amp, and i was a bit confused by all the settings on it. First question would be about the RCA plugs. I'd just use two? One in input, one in output for each channel? So I'd use like...channel one for the fronts, channel 4 for the back?

Then, the four knobs for each bridged channel I'd have no idea what to set those to.

Thanks again for all your help. I know I turned a simple answer into a million more questions but it made more sense to keep asking here than new threads.

 

[fly_marlin]

You can do either way, I think another 4awg is easier - you don't have to take out the other power wire. You have 3 sets of pre-outs on your deck. One of them is for the sub. You'll need to run a 2ch RCA cable from the sub-out to your sub amp. Then you'll need 4ch RCA cable from the remaining outputs in the deck to the inputs on your 4 channel amp. You will not be using the RCA outputs in this case, so don't plug anything in there. Your terminology is a bit off. You won't be bridging anything. The amp, as most 4ch amps do, has separate adjustments for front and rear channels. I don't user rear speakers, so I have less to adjust. You will set the amp for 4ch operation via the switch. The x-over you will set to HPF for all channels. You will then set the HPF dial for all channels to about 120Hz, you don't need to touch the HPF. This means all your speakers will essentially play frequencies above 120Hz. You can do small adjustments to the HPF dial based on your taste - listen to some songs you're familiar with and see what sounds best to you. On your sub amp, as you may already have done, you will only use the LPF and that's generally set around 80Hz - again adjust that slightly from that based on your taste.

Your deck may have crossovers in it that you can utilize. If you do use that, set the x-over setting to "full" since you don't want to be crossing things twice. You'll also need to run a second remote wire for the new amp.

Are you about to pull the trigger on that amp?

 

[jatyro91]

You can do either way, I think another 4awg is easier - you don't have to take out the other power wire. You have 3 sets of pre-outs on your deck. One of them is for the sub. You'll need to run a 2ch RCA cable from the sub-out to your sub amp. Then you'll need 4ch RCA cable from the remaining outputs in the deck to the inputs on your 4 channel amp. You will not be using the RCA outputs in this case, so don't plug anything in there.

The Sub amp has two RCA plugs in it because I have 2 12"s, not because you need a white and a red. Got it. That's where I wasn't understanding how there could be 6 plugs when I thought I needed 8 (two for each speaker).

Your terminology is a bit off. You won't be bridging anything. The amp, as most 4ch amps do, has separate adjustments for front and rear channels. I don't user rear speakers, so I have less to adjust. You will set the amp for 4ch operation via the switch. The x-over you will set to HPF for all channels. You will then set the HPF dial for all channels to about 120Hz, you don't need to touch the HPF. This means all your speakers will essentially play frequencies above 120Hz. You can do small adjustments to the HPF dial based on your taste - listen to some songs you're familiar with and see what sounds best to you. On your sub amp, as you may already have done, you will only use the LPF and that's generally set around 80Hz - again adjust that slightly from that based on your taste.

So LPF can be ignored because I have the x-over set to HPF? I'm assuming the nob simply labeled Crossover on my sub amp is the LPF which is (as we said earlier in this post) set at 80z. Any idea on the Level and Bass EQ?

Your deck may have crossovers in it that you can utilize. If you do use that, set the x-over setting to "full" since you don't want to be crossing things twice. You'll also need to run a second remote wire for the new amp.

The deck I purchased is the Pioneer AVH-X2700BS (AVH-X2700BS - <b>NEW!</b> - DVD Receiver with 6.2" Display, Bluetooth®, Siri® Eyes Free, SiriusXM-Ready™, Android™ Music Support, and Pandora® | Pioneer Electronics USA) It should be arriving next week, with the hardware for it somewhere soon after that. It says it has LPF, HPF Crossover networks, but I don't know to what extent yet.

Are you about to pull the trigger on that amp?

Yeah, it's going to be my next purchase, probably at the end of the month depending on how funds end up.

 

[fly_marlin]

The Sub amp has two RCA plugs in it because I have 2 12"s, not because you need a white and a red. Got it. That's where I wasn't understanding how there could be 6 plugs when I thought I needed 8 (two for each speaker)..

You don't need both because you run 2 subs. Each output from the deck has voltage, so you're supplying a stronger signal to the amp by having both RCAs connected. You don't need 8. 1 sub output is enough for all subs you're running. For the speakers, you need 1 ch per speaker. Should be pretty straight forward.

Use the x-overs on your amp. Most HUs don't have continuously variable x-overs - only present frequencies. Once you get the x-over point to your liking on the amps, you can just leave it alone. As for the bass boost - there are different opinions on it. Some use it, some avoid it like a plague. It's a boost at 45Hz with up to 18db gain. I set mine around 6db. There is really no "right" setting for it, but I don't recommend setting it to max. Once you set the x-overs, you can mess with the bass boost and see what level best suits you.

 

[jatyro91]

You don't need both because you run 2 subs. Each output from the deck has voltage, so you're supplying a stronger signal to the amp by having both RCAs connected. You don't need 8. 1 sub output is enough for all subs you're running. For the speakers, you need 1 ch per speaker. Should be pretty straight forward.

Yeah, I get it now. I saw that I had two RCA's in my mono block for my amp, and thought that each speaker also needed two. Now that you cleared that up, looking at the amp inputs make a lot more sense.

Use the x-overs on your amp. Most HUs don't have continuously variable x-overs - only present frequencies. Once you get the x-over point to your liking on the amps, you can just leave it alone. As for the bass boost - there are different opinions on it. Some use it, some avoid it like a plague. It's a boost at 45Hz with up to 18db gain. I set mine around 6db. There is really no "right" setting for it, but I don't recommend setting it to max. Once you set the x-overs, you can mess with the bass boost and see what level best suits you.

Didn't realize Bass EQ and Bass Boost were the same. I'll most likely end up leaving it at around 6, that's about what I have my sub amp on. Would "Level" be equivalent to Gain then?

 

[fly_marlin]

Yes, level is gain.