Put LTO on stock electric.

[Nikolai Cvetkov]

Hello all,
Can I put LTO Yinlong batteries as second bank in the trunk to power up 3k amplifier...
I had 90A alt and 80Ah batt ... But when bass hits I drop from 14v to 12.9... ive put 120Ah and had drop to 13.2v ... So few weeks ago I bought 180A alt so now my drop is to 13.3/4 ... I guess stock alternator cant handle well such power. I have only 1 battery under the good lead acid 100Ah ... People say i can put second 100Ah battery but lead acid/ agms are not so effective and I think i still will have voltage drop issues ... I connected volt meter to my amplifier and I read 14.2 on idle and 13.3-13.7v when bass hits. Before i had clip indicator on almost on every frequency 24hz-60hz .. while the clip now blink sometimes on frequency above 45hz ... Im not sure if its caused by the voltage drop because on freqs. Above 37/38 hz my voltage drop is not that much... Barely go under 13.9v.
So my question is can I put 35/40Ah LTO yinlong batteries and how many baterries I may need and how to connect them ?
Ive upgraded my wires in the car. From alt to main batt 25mm2 OFC (welding wire) ... And again 25mm2 from main batt to the amp in the trunk and 25mm2 ground. And second question . i measure 14.4v on main batt(or alt ) no matter where I measure ... But If i measure directly on the amp i measure 0.2v under the voltage I have. Could it be caused by bad ground .. cuz I use 80cm long ground wire under the back seats .. no heat or anything? I hear my turn signals from the woofer and when volume is at 0 and start rusing it to 24 i still hear like the volume button .. recently I was hearing my engine so changed the rca with stage 3 and fixed this but now I hear other accessories. I would be thankful if you guys help me little

Click to read more...

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

For the noise, check the source and signal transfer, amp grounds etc, could be the head unit is picking up noise. Could be that you have RCA's or speaker wires running parallel with power and ground.

As for a second battery for a 3000 watt system you have lots of options. If your battery is in the engine compartment up front and your amp is in the rear, I would wire the 2nd batter using 1/0 gauge OFC welding/power and ground cables from the front to rear and I would also run a parallel ground in the rear to chassis/frame. Here is some info on parallel grounding. It is essentially +/- cables from battery to battery then grounding again at the second battery.

https://www.bestcaraudio.com/car-audio-myths-you-cant-ground-a-car-audio-amplifier-to-the-battery/

If your battery is in the rear near the amp, simply upgrading the battery to a larger AGM battery might be enough.

If you decide to run a 2nd battery, you are not running a lot of power for the alternator that you have upgraded to and that leaves open a lot of options. The simplest and most cost effective being that you;re in Bulgaria would be a LifePo4 lithium battery with at least a 100A BMS. Here is one I found that ships to Bulgaria,

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08DM893X1/?tag=caraudiocom-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09S5LVMPH/?tag=caraudiocom-20

It has a 100A continuous draw and my research has found that they generally allow up to 275A burst of 5-10 seconds which should cover absolutely anything you system could use.

Another option is a super cap type item or a small AGM:

AGM

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0089NRB70/?tag=caraudiocom-20

Very good option:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BLCZL8LK/?tag=caraudiocom-20

 

[Nikolai Cvetkov]

Yes the main battery is at engine side (the car is Mercedes w124) ... Originally it comes with 90A alt and 70/80Ah batt .. ive upgraded with 180A alt and 100Ah lead acid battery ... Upgraded the wire from alt to the battery and the ground of the battery is 40cm (near the shock absorber ) ... Currently the amp is grounded under back seats with m10 bolt ... I wasnt sure if the RCA are bad ... So I changed them with stage 3 rca which are expensive .. the parasite noise from engine disapeared but now I hear only few accessories... Otherwise if the car is just on idle with volume UP all the way I dont hear any noise juat when use emergency lights or left/right signals ... Ive pushed 2 x 6mm2 wires for the headunit one for positive and one for ground ... i tried to touch the rca plugs with wire and ground to chasy or HU body but nothing happens ... Could it be possible that my power to the amp is way too long while the ground is lot shorter ... I though on wire both negative terminals on both batteries (when I add second one) and leave the current one from the amp to the chassis as additional ground like you said ... So Ill try to put ground loop I hope it help with such noise ... My HU is not very modified for bass cuz it has 2v output on rca .. while I left my HU to 47 out of 62 cuz of clipped signal and there I get 1.59v ... Could it be possible because of such low voltage on rca to cause noise cuz to match the gain my amp is like on 60/65% up ... Ive read some amps dont work well with high gain ... But thats the point where it match with HUs voltage to put out 3kw ... I use Pioneer MVH s520BT and Deaf Bonce 2900.1D amp
Forgot to say : Power wire is going through passenger while RCA are going to the trunk nearby the drivers side ... Ive red about the induction so the power wires and rca wires are separated .

That LifePo4 looks good ... Its smaller compared to normal lead Acid battery ... I think of re-work the wires and put the amp and the second batt under the back seats which will decrease the lenght of the power wire but the signal wires to the woofer should be longer not sure how that affects the damping since most class D amps nowadays dont have damping control (its probably automatic ) ...my wires to the sub is 4mm2 again OFC

Last question .. does that LifePo4 batt need boost on voltage cuz I have 14.4/5 ~ only on first engine atart where the main battery is cold .. in 2/3 minutes it drop to 14.2/1 v ... Will this be enough to charge both ?

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Lot to digest but maybe I can cover most of this. As for the output issue, that is a problem. 1.5 to 2V is not good. I would get a line driver to increase the output and re-equalize the system completely You are probably clipping because you are setting the gains against a possible clipped signal from the HU. Something like an AudioControl Matrix Plus would allow you to improve this completely.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EE3YB6C/?tag=caraudiocom-20

or if you are only outputting 2 channels

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08WPRG5F2/?tag=caraudiocom-20

Sounds like the speaker and RCA's wiring are fine. As for the noise from accessories, might not be worth trying to isolate them as it is quite possible that the head unit is picking that up and unless you change that out, will be the least of the issue and changing out the HU is costly.

As for your ground, shorter is always better for grounds. THe parallel option just improves the grounding ability of the system with inducing ground loops. As for the 2nd battery, 1/0 AWG OFC wire is more than adequate in this scenario. You'll want to run the +/- front to back and then in the back, I would run another short as possible ground from the 2nd battery to a nearby grounding point. Make sure any grounding point is sanded to bare metal with the cable/lug itself touching the grounding point.

As for putting the 2nd battery closer, not an issue with 1/0 gauge wire. Put it where is works best, no need to consider the distance for this purpose, not going to be an issue.

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

Yinlong needs to charge at 15.5v to be fully useful. Plannano can work down to 14.8v scibs are somewhere in-between.

Sodium ion is probably the best drop in option. Lifepo4 works up to 14.6v too.

 

[Nikolai Cvetkov]

Yinlong needs to charge at 15.5v to be fully useful. Plannano can work down to 14.8v scibs are somewhere in-between.

Sodium ion is probably the best drop in option. Lifepo4 works up to 14.6v too.

Thats exacly what I asked ... Its with stock relay-regulator ... But with other relay

Lot to digest but maybe I can cover most of this. As for the output issue, that is a problem. 1.5 to 2V is not good. I would get a line driver to increase the output and re-equalize the system completely You are probably clipping because you are setting the gains against a possible clipped signal from the HU. Something like an AudioControl Matrix Plus would allow you to improve this completely.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EE3YB6C/?tag=caraudiocom-20

or if you are only outputting 2 channels

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08WPRG5F2/?tag=caraudiocom-20

Sounds like the speaker and RCA's wiring are fine. As for the noise from accessories, might not be worth trying to isolate them as it is quite possible that the head unit is picking that up and unless you change that out, will be the least of the issue and changing out the HU is costly.

As for your ground, shorter is always better for grounds. THe parallel option just improves the grounding ability of the system with inducing ground loops. As for the 2nd battery, 1/0 AWG OFC wire is more than adequate in this scenario. You'll want to run the +/- front to back and then in the back, I would run another short as possible ground from the 2nd battery to a nearby grounding point. Make sure any grounding point is sanded to bare metal with the cable/lug itself touching the grounding point.

As for putting the 2nd battery closer, not an issue with 1/0 gauge wire. Put it where is works best, no need to consider the distance for this purpose, not going to be an issue.

So I picked the second batt. Small deep cycle ebt 100Ah on 12v ... I ran extra wire from - on main batt back to the - on the second batt and the ground point which I use for amplifier now is spot for the second batt. The amplifier is wired directly to the - of the second batt and the + of the second batt ... The old wire which previously powered up the amplifier from the main batt now is connected to the second one. The noise kinda almost disappeared which I think could be because of bad grounding ... The car is huge and I guess grounding spots needs to be near and well "connected" ...
So , do I really need audio controller for the RCA , currently I have left and right channel , but the amplifier is mono and i use only one of the RCA ends ... The amplifier have rca input x 1 and rca output x1 ... I use the input and the left rca is free ... Not sure if I need to use 2:1 splitter ... Seems meaningless and Im not sure if it will make the signal bad ... Probably ill use another HU of Nakamichi, Alpine , Kenwood ... Pioneer seems to not work well with high freqs ... The bass from SW rca is also silenced kinda ... Also Ill look for someone to mode my alt to charge to 15v to put LifePo4 should work best for me .. currently friend measured the output voltage of the amp with feq calculations he tells me aim outputting 2.4kW power before clipping so yeah seems the HU clip on random freqs while on 50hz test note it doesnt clip ...
Any advice on good HU with atleast 4v output ?

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

If you are going to replace the HU, then the AC unit is not needed. As to which are good to use, I like the Kenwood Excelon, Sony, Alpine and Pioneer - they all do very well. You will want to do some research on what you want from the HU and determine what suits you needs and budget. That will changes everything here as almost all decent HU's come with 4V outputs.

Most upgraded HU's will also have a dedicated mono output that has the R/L summed so the L/R signal issue is solved for the subs as well.

If you're amplifier has a single input, that is fed by a new HU with a mono output, no need to combine dual mono outputs or combine L/R outputs to one unless you don't have the mono output in the first place.

If the amplifier has 2 inputs, then you do want to use both inputs by using dual mono outputs or splitting a single mono output to 2 or using the R/L full range to both the imputes as this will impact the overall voltage input and in turn will affect the amplifiers output.

Againl, if you have a single input on the amp, then combine L/R to one if you don't have a mono subwoofer output as this will sum L/R and give you signals for the subs from both channels as opposed to one.

Be careful with internal electrical and charging modifications to an alternator, not a path I would advise. Stay with what voltage the car is designed for (not talking about amperage output), use compatible battery upgrades that are within tolerances and you will be fine.

You're getting a bit ahead of yourself with all that. I run a 5000 watt system off the factory 110A alt and use a Glow Voltage (LiFepo) Lithium bank in the rear of the car and A Bosch AGM under the hood, 1/0 big three upgrade and that is it. Adding 1/0 +/- runs from front to back and an extra short ground at the 2nd battery location is all you should ever need with the system you are using. The other electrical modifications you are proposing are only not necessary but will take you down a path that is expensive with no benefits at all for a system under 10K output, just don't do it.