Proper sealing of doors when the door panel uses clips to attach to the door

[Joseph7195 10+ year member]

I have a Dodge Ram Quad Cab and these are not known to be easy SQ vehicles. But a problem I have ran into is trying to seal the door completely. The clips for the door panels are pretty big and isn't allowing me to completely seal the door. Pics below.

Door

Closeup of door

Door Panel

Door Panel

I remembering working on a car a couple years ago that had plastic inserts that would be easy to seal to the door and the panel slide into, but I cannot remember what vehicle it was. I have been trying to think of other door panel mounting options that would allow me to totally seal the door without modifying the panel to be attached without the clips.

I am about to seal all holes (large and small) with sheet metal, hoping to add stiffness to the door and also help with low end response.

It would be cool to hear several idea's and other's experience with this problem, just let me know how you handled the problem and what solutions you would think would work. Thanks!

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[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

Put a layer of closed cell foam and a layer of mass loaded vinyl down. Use 3/8" CCF. You can get it for like $10 for a huge roll of it.

 

[wenn_du_weinst 10+ year member]

spray foam in holes then put panel on so it expands around clip

 

[Joseph7195 10+ year member]

spray foam in holes then put panel on so it expands around clip

I am still trying to figure out a more effective way to implement your idea. I wonder if I could pop off the the rubber window guide and somehow run a long tube inside the door and then spray the foam on the clips from the inside. Though I will probably won't be able to remove the door panel without trouble either way if something happens to go wrong in the door.

Put a layer of closed cell foam and a layer of mass loaded vinyl down. Use 3/8" CCF. You can get it for like $10 for a huge roll of it.

I like this idea, and i plan on implementing these ideas, but it still leaves me with the problem of mounting the door panel with original hardware. I have a feeling you have had this problem before and the solution was to ditch the factory clips and you found an alternative door panel mounting method. Mr. Dragon, could you link the CCF at that really good price for me and others looking to find it inexpensively? Plus it would make sure others are actually getting the correct stuff.

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

To seal off around the clips try since buytl rope from sound deadener showdown.

With ccf you just have to press hard to get the clips back in. I had to hit my panels to get them back on.

 

[Joseph7195 10+ year member]

To seal off around the clips try since buytl rope from sound deadener showdown.
With ccf you just have to press hard to get the clips back in. I had to hit my panels to get them back on.

I am afraid this is gonna be my only option. I still need to find the CCF and check it out. I am hoping the flexibility allows me to reuse the factory "slide on" clips. I have also thought about making the factory speaker location larger and just put a small box in it with a great sounding speaker for sealed boxes, and making it so the speaker fits flush to the back of the panel as the old speaker would have. I honestly haven't been able to experiment, but I am guessing the small box will have frequency response drawbacks.

 

[Sleeklsc 5,000+ posts]

Just be glad you don't have a door panel equiped with those f'n plastic push pins.

Imho, don't worry about the holes. I doubt any audible diff will be had in that application.

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

same problem here but im gonna go with with dragons idea.im gonna cut squares around the clips and cut out a spot for the clips kinda like making a gasket for every clip

 

[Joseph7195 10+ year member]

Just be glad you don't have a door panel equiped with those f'n plastic push pins.
Imho, don't worry about the holes. I doubt any audible diff will be had in that application.

I hear ya, I used to hate my Grand Marquis because of the door panels.

I thought about just letting well enough alone, but with all the comps I have been to and the amount of effort that went into all those SQ vehicles, I know if i slack off even a little, I won't be able to compete along side of them competitively. Plus, I have no life, so I gotta try to keep busy, lol

same problem here but im gonna go with with dragons idea.im gonna cut squares around the clips and cut out a spot for the clips kinda like making a gasket for every clip

, If I gotta make it work like this, I will have to live with it. I was thinking of trying to make small cups/boxes behind the slots the clips slide into and welding them to it to make it seal better. It's a lot of work, but maybe I can figure out a way that won't involve welding. We can only hope, haha

 

[Sleeklsc 5,000+ posts]

I hear ya, I used to hate my Grand Marquis because of the door panels. I thought about just letting well enough alone, but with all the comps I have been to and the amount of effort that went into all those SQ vehicles, I know if i slack off even a little, I won't be able to compete along side of them competitively. Plus, I have no life, so I gotta try to keep busy, lol

,

If I gotta make it work like this, I will have to live with it. I was thinking of trying to make small cups/boxes behind the slots the clips slide into and welding them to it to make it seal better. It's a lot of work, but maybe I can figure out a way that won't involve welding. We can only hope, haha

lol, a little anal are we //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif If it bothers you that much then you mine aswell do it while your in there.

I had a 98 marquis before this mark viii and it had the hook's like my present car. People often snap them off cause they think it's the pushpin type panel. Let's just say I had to use alot of plastic epoxy on the marquis to fix mechanic mistakes. Overall I do like the hooks better, makes removel/install alot easier.

 

[Joseph7195 10+ year member]

lol, a little anal are we //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif If it bothers you that much then you mine aswell do it while your in there.
I had a 98 marquis before this mark viii and it had the hook's like my present car. People often snap them off cause they think it's the pushpin type panel. Let's just say I had to use alot of plastic epoxy on the marquis to fix mechanic mistakes. Overall I do like the hooks better, makes removel/install alot easier.

Ha Ha //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/iagree.gif.15d6c075ee8d3913ba26866d06993068.gif It used to be simple in SPL comps. The sub enclosure was the most important factor in the install. I actually miss it sometimes. With SQ, it seems like nothing I do is working like I thought it would. But it's fun, and I get to keep doing my audio's!

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

one option is to say f- the clips and screw the door panel on. you can get screws with a plastic cap ring so the final product is something that looks factory. this may be tricky to do well, but any clip is a poor method to attach a door panel when midbass is desired. screws are preferred over plastic clips IMO. you can usually hide the screws in the edges that are not visible when the door is closed, and certainly behind a removable window controls/door latch.

you can get stupid strong magnets and just use them to hold the door panel on using fewer screws. the toughest part about this is finding glue to hold the magnets on, but the final product would have better aesthetic appeal.

i agree the ideal solution is to eliminate those clips completely.

i see you are also missing foam along the front of the speaker - you want to seal to the door panel as well.

the cheapest price i've seen on 1/8" 1lb/sf MLV (I specify the stuff a lot in commercial applications) is acoustical duct lagging products (typically have a foil scrim) - like 40sf - 50sf for ~30 +shipping. ebay has a few suppliers in the building insulation section.

i don't like the idea to seal around the plastic clip because you are still engaging the door panel and the panel will vibrate. really, your best bet for SQ is a fiberglass door pod with adequate airspace for the desired Q of the woofer system. driver selection plays a role when airspace is limited (i.e. surface mounted door pod). the door cavity can work, but requires a lot of deadening, never fully seals, and then the window seals are a weak point that become a blatant leak when the windows are down.

 

[Joseph7195 10+ year member]

one option is to say f- the clips and screw the door panel on. you can get screws with a plastic cap ring so the final product is something that looks factory. this may be tricky to do well, but any clip is a poor method to attach a door panel when midbass is desired. screws are preferred over plastic clips IMO. you can usually hide the screws in the edges that are not visible when the door is closed, and certainly behind a removable window controls/door latch.

you can get stupid strong magnets and just use them to hold the door panel on using fewer screws. the toughest part about this is finding glue to hold the magnets on, but the final product would have better aesthetic appeal.

i see you are also missing foam along the front of the speaker - you want to seal to the door panel as well.

the cheapest price i've seen on 1/8" 1lb/sf MLV (I specify the stuff a lot in commercial applications) is acoustical duct lagging products (typically have a foil scrim) - like 40sf - 50sf for ~30 +shipping. ebay has a few suppliers in the building insulation section.

i don't like the idea to seal around the plastic clip because you are still engaging the door panel and the panel will vibrate. really, your best bet for SQ is a fiberglass door pod with adequate airspace for the desired Q of the woofer system. driver selection plays a role when airspace is limited (i.e. surface mounted door pod). the door cavity can work, but requires a lot of deadening, never fully seals, and then the window seals are a weak point that become a blatant leak when the windows are down.

I think ultimately I will end up having to rid myself of the clips. The screw method was my first choice considering how much modification I will be doing to this truck for SQ comps, I don't plan on selling my truck, so I guess i can replace with screws and drop the clips.

This was also another one of my concerns because of de-fraction. I know at some live concerts I have done, I used separate mids and highs, and sub enclosures. This was done mainly for staging and to keep from having the left and right of the stage being able to hear the show clearly, and then center of the stage to hear things as though they were muffled. I was wondering that in such a small environment(in a car) would I have the same de-fraction issues because the speaker is mounted behind a door panel instead of flush with the panel? Hence why I haven't foamed everything up yet(I haven't been able to experiment lately due to not being able to walk, a couple weeks and I will be walking again //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/highhorse.gif.6bbb570c3f53dc0dcce8a2b8ad05cf11.gif ) and I didn't want to modify everything until I knew the answer.

and for the pods, this is what I was thinking too, if I was to use a door pod of some type, I can control the speaker's working environment better, and make changes to the pod to get my desired results. But, like you said, I will have to pick the speaker first and make the pod according to the speaker. Thank you so much!! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/respekt.gif.b162d148236010609fe523122efe3729.gif

 

[Jroo 10+ year member]

It looks like you have deadened the door pretty decent and done some work to deaden the panel itself. I would do the MLV and the closed cell foam. I would just make the holes a little bit smaller so you have to really work the clips back in. Im not sure how far you want to take this, but you have already done more than a good majority of people would do. Short of adding more deading and trying to add more mass/deading to the door panel, you are going to have to do something really custom to improve upon what you have already.

 

[kramer_212 10+ year member]

although it is going to take some time, i second the screw idea.