Phasing the tweeters (sq comp coming)

Use a recording w/ a good center image vocal. With your other speakers disconnected, flip the polarity of one of the tweets. If the image sounds more diffused, swap the polarity of one of the tweets again (either one, it doesn't matter). If the image sounds more focused, leave it be for the time being. Do the same for the mids...except add one more step & flip the polarity of both mids (after you found a focused center image) to see if there's any improvement in midbass. If it improved, leave it. If it didn't, flip the polarity of both mids again. Then hook up the mids/tweets, in respect to the polaritys that sounded best, & give them a little critical listening time w/ some familiar music. Now flip the polarity of both tweets & put in a little more critical listening time. If they sound more natural, leave it. If they sound more separated, flip the polarity of both tweets again. Finally, see which polarity setting works best on your sub(s), to blend in with the acoustical phase of your fronts.
thanks for the usefull advice pjhabit. I won't have the time to do that prior to the comp but i will later on. I already played a little with the tweeter phase the difference is really subtil, while in my other car, the staging was more defined while playing with the phase.

I'd like to know what would be the best track to set that? anything from any usaci'S cd?

 
Day of the comp so not too helpful, but phase also affects the x-over region. In phase, the tweeter and mid will blend nicely and give a transition of equal frequency response over the x-over range. When one driver is placed out of phase, this instead creates sort of a black hole in the frequency response over the x-over region. Out of phase signals of the same frequency cancel each other out. You effectively lose the information at the x-over point. The sound effect isn't terribly noticeable since it may only happen over a small frequency range (especially using steep x-over slopes). What you hear is improved separate between the midwoofer and tweeter. Instead of blending seamlessly, they sort of sit independent of each other. It's very much like if you would run a steep x-over slope and spread apart the x-over points. This too would create a pit in the frequency response and **** out the information in the x-over range. Some folks seem to like this as it makes the highs and mids stand out and separate more, but frankly it's not a correct thing.

Similar things happen when you phase the midwoofer and sub out from each other or even cross phase left and right speakers. Many times the beneficial effect is greater separation in space, but it's at the sacrifice of losing and messing up real information. In my else, phasing is a joke. It's a band aid fix for some people that are willing to take the trade-offs and that don't have time alignment to do the job properly.

The correct action is time alignment. Ideally, you'd want the system run active using full electronic processing. This allows you to control each single driver independently. You have free reign to pick x-over points, adjust each driver's delay, and adjust each driver's output level. If available, independent EQ for the left and right chanels allows this to go further. You can effectively set everything exactly right. As well, with enough processing, you can work around install limitations. Placement and aiming go a long way to minimize processing need, but processing allows you to fix the issues without great need for custom fabrication. You do still need to treat the car well though to cut down vibrations, noise, and reflections.

 
Day of the comp so not too helpful, but phase also affects the x-over region. In phase, the tweeter and mid will blend nicely and give a transition of equal frequency response over the x-over range. When one driver is placed out of phase, this instead creates sort of a black hole in the frequency response over the x-over region. Out of phase signals of the same frequency cancel each other out. You effectively lose the information at the x-over point. The sound effect isn't terribly noticeable since it may only happen over a small frequency range (especially using steep x-over slopes). What you hear is improved separate between the midwoofer and tweeter. Instead of blending seamlessly, they sort of sit independent of each other. It's very much like if you would run a steep x-over slope and spread apart the x-over points. This too would create a pit in the frequency response and **** out the information in the x-over range. Some folks seem to like this as it makes the highs and mids stand out and separate more, but frankly it's not a correct thing.
Similar things happen when you phase the midwoofer and sub out from each other or even cross phase left and right speakers. Many times the beneficial effect is greater separation in space, but it's at the sacrifice of losing and messing up real information. In my else, phasing is a joke. It's a band aid fix for some people that are willing to take the trade-offs and that don't have time alignment to do the job properly.

The correct action is time alignment. Ideally, you'd want the system run active using full electronic processing. This allows you to control each single driver independently. You have free reign to pick x-over points, uadjust each driver's delay, and adjust each driver's output level. If available, independent EQ for the left and right chanels allows this to go further. You can effectively set everything exactly right. As well, with enough processing, you can work around install limitations. Placement and aiming go a long way to minimize processing need, but processing allows you to fix the issues without great need for custom fabrication. You do still need to treat the car well though to cut down vibrations, noise, and reflections.

Ok, you explain pretty well, everything is so clear //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif A nice time alligment/processing hu will come pretty soon i'm sure of that.

On the comp. I didn't made it in the first 3 but i wasn't the last like i expected either. The judges were actually pretty please with the sound of my lil image dynamics. Pretty much everyone else was running cdt es line and i wasn't impress at all seriously.

I didn't went through the rta thing cause i was too late //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

The thing i need to work on the system is really the staging. on the usaci cd, there some lil staging test and it didn't went to well. I guess i can only improve for the next one.

btw my substage is freaking more louder/better sounding the than dude with a saz-2000 and a pair of 12inch ssa icons. I was the louder there //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif

 
Ok, you explain pretty well, everything is so clear //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif A nice time alligment/processing hu will come pretty soon i'm sure of that.
On the comp. I didn't made it in the first 3 but i wasn't the last like i expected either. The judges were actually pretty please with the sound of my lil image dynamics. Pretty much everyone else was running cdt es line and i wasn't impress at all seriously.

I didn't went through the rta thing cause i was too late //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

The thing i need to work on the system is really the staging. on the usaci cd, there some lil staging test and it didn't went to well. I guess i can only improve for the next one.

btw my substage is freaking more louder/better sounding the than dude with a saz-2000 and a pair of 12inch ssa icons. I was the louder there //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif
He probably had his subs turned way down since it's an sq comp and you're supposed to blend your substage to the frontstage.

 
He probably had his subs turned way down since it's an sq comp and you're supposed to blend your substage to the frontstage.
hum.. that was before the "comp" started. I'm talking full tilt. Similar box (mine tuned at 29hz his at 34hz) similar power (saz-1500 vs bxi2006). Car different obviously...

 
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