Orion hcca talk

[Andrew hcca]

I drove a team Orion car with 6 HCCA 12" wall 9 hours straight to a show while breaking them in and never got them hot. Has to be a clipping issue.

But you said you are reconing them because the suspension gets weak and not because you are burning up coils?

Yeah that’s the weird thing, the first one I smoked the coil, the last 3 were from weak spiders, you can hear them scraping the magnet

 

[dragon.breath 10+ year member]

What is the box tuned to? I am thinking that you may be unloading the subs and overextending them to the point that you are ripping the spiders.

 

[shredder2]

Yeah that’s the weird thing, the first one I smoked the coil, the last 3 were from weak spiders, you can hear them scraping the magnet

Quite the statement Op.

Just how do you think the spiders are scraping the magnet?

Sounds like you are thermally killing the coils, the glue fails and the coil is unwinding

 

[Andrew hcca]

What is the box tuned to? I am thinking that you may be unloading the subs and overextending them to the point that you are ripping the spiders.

I have them in an Orion stage 3 ported box at 40 hz. These are the specs

 

[Andrew hcca]

Quite the statement Op.

Just how do you think the spiders are scraping the magnet?

Sounds like you are thermally killing the coils, the glue fails and the coil is unwinding

That came out wrong, the spider is worn, you can hear the coil scraping the magnet

 

[shredder2]

That came out wrong, the spider is worn, you can hear the coil scraping the magnet

I don't thnk a worn spider will make the coil rub. Unless its off center in the 1st place, torn or failed at the joint. I still think its thermal failure

 

[Andrew hcca]

Yeah that’s the weird thing, the first one I smoked the coil, the last 3 were from weak spiders, you can hear them scraping the magnet

I drove a team Orion car with 6 HCCA 12" wall 9 hours straight to a show while breaking them in and never got them hot. Has to be a clipping issue.

But you said you are reconing them because the suspension gets weak and not because you are burning up coils?

I think you are right, the subs usually are quite warm by the end of my drive

 

[Andrew hcca]

I don't thnk a worn spider will make the coil rub. Unless its off center in the 1st place, torn or failed at the joint. I still think its thermal failure

The subs do get warm, the amp gets pretty hot too, I do use an smd meter to check for distortion so I can make sure it’s tuned safe. My theory is maybe since the amps getting hot maybe by mid drive maybe it’s not putting out clean power at high levels and causing clipping? I ordered a cooling fan for the amp gonna see how that goes. Do you think that sounds logical?

 

[SilverSquared 10+ year member]

You never mentioned, whats your electrical system looking like? Alternator amperage output? Batteries? Power cable size, type?

 

[shredder2]

The subs do get warm, the amp gets pretty hot too, I do use an smd meter to check for distortion so I can make sure it’s tuned safe. My theory is maybe since the amps getting hot maybe by mid drive maybe it’s not putting out clean power at high levels and causing clipping? I ordered a cooling fan for the amp gonna see how that goes. Do you think that sounds logical?

You should include in your theory the variance in recording levels. Box tuning will count as well. Playing rebassed or boosted/slowed content might put it into clipping and definitely be way under tuning.
A 40hz tuned enclosure needs the subsonic set, even if it is it will be advisable to avoid those low lows as the sub will unload with a ported 40hz tuned box in the mid-low 30s IME.
What type of music do you listen to?
What level do you set gains with... Etc?

 

[Andrew hcca]

You should include in your theory the variance in recording levels. Box tuning will count as well. Playing rebassed or boosted/slowed content might put it into clipping and definitely be way under tuning.
A 40hz tuned enclosure needs the subsonic set, even if it is it will be advisable to avoid those low lows as the sub will unload with a ported 40hz tuned box in the mid-low 30s IME.
What type of music do you listen to?
What level do you set gains with... Etc?

I listen to mostly rap, Nipsey Hussle/game etc. usually pounding those low notes, I don’t listen to anything bass boosted or slowed. I currently have my subsonic set to about 80, you’re saying I should set that to 40? And I’m assuming I should change the low pass on the deck to 40hz? Or is that wrong? My gain I’m not entirely sure of for a few reasons which I’ll explain which might seem quite ignorant if I’m gonna be honest. This amp puts out 5400w rms at 1 ohm from the factory dyno, I was initially pushing 102v output to both subs at max volume with no distortion according to my smd meter, which of course is 200w more than each sub is rated for rms wise. After the first time I needed to recone one of my subs I dialed the gain back down to about 98v, and I play my music at 1 volume lower than I did before hoping that would be a good enough power cut in hopes to get a little more longevity from them. I haven’t metered it’s actual output after doing that which is stupid on my part but that’s where I’m at

 

[shredder2]

I currently have my subsonic set to about 80

80?.. on your SUBSONIC?
I think your confusing lowpass with the ssf.

And ya... your box ain't suited for real lows

 

[Andrew hcca]

80?.. on your SUBSONIC?
I think your confusing lowpass with the ssf.

And ya... your box ain't suited for real lows

Ok yeah you’re right, sorry it’s been probably 6 months since I looked at the amp. Here’s a picture so you can get a better idea. So these aren’t what my amp is Actually set to right now. This was an out of the box picture I took so ignore all the current levels where they are but Atleast you can see what I see. So currently I have the subsonic filter turned off, it has never been turned on because frankly I don’t even know what it does. If you can’t tell I’m more of the guy who builds the systems and lets someone else tune it generally.. but I’m trying to learn so bear with me. I’ve tried doing research online but nothing really sticks unless I’m really shown how to do it.. I really do appreciate your patience

 

[shredder2]

So currently I have the subsonic filter turned off, it has never been turned on

Turn that sucker on man... its a set 25hz which I think is bs but it'll help.

with your power and tuning I'd guess a 30hz setting or higher would be best but it is what it is...

Set 25hz setting at 12 db/octave... Orion shit.
If you are wanging away under tuning you need somethng to attenuate the signal or you'll be fighting excursion issues. Low notes and 40hz tuning don't mix... especially when fulltilt.

No wonder you blame the suspension

 

[Andrew hcca]

Turn that sucker on man... its a set 25hz which I think is bs but it'll help.

with your power and tuning I'd guess a 30hz setting or higher would be best but it is what it is...

Set 25hz setting at 12 db/octave... Orion shit.
If you are wanging away under tuning you need somethng to attenuate the signal or you'll be fighting excursion issues. Low notes and 40hz tuning don't mix... especially when fulltilt.

No wonder you blame the suspension

So this weekend I dug into things and my gain was set way to high, when I initially lowered it I did it without a meter and kicked it back up a little didn’t realize I set it even higher than before. But even max power from my amp without distortion I’m still burning shit up. I’m waiting on a new re cone kit to come in since the last one I was sent had some scuffs and traces of blue thread lock in the spider mounts that set me back a little. My brother has been helping me with the tuning, he says my gain should be set to 74v based on his equation he uses which I’ll list at the bottom. But to me it just doesn’t seem right considering 74v is barely pushing these things.. I’m running duel 300a alternators with duel batteries. I do NOT have the batteries isolated. I have a yellow top up front and a 31 group in the back run in parallel. I have 2 runs of zero gauge connecting them. And multiple grounds to the rear battery including 2 to the frame, and one to the body in the back. And upgraded 0g grounds at the front too with the big 3 upgrade. I only have a .2 voltage drop in the rear.

This is his math he uses


Set gain with DMM-

V= SQUARE ROOT OF PXR

(P)= amp rms

(R)=Resistance of speaker load

EX. my amp

300x4=1200

300w per bridged channel

4ohms each sub on their own bridged channels

square root of 1200 =36.4

V=36.4

Play 50Hz test track with speakers disconnected while adjusting gain