Old School PPI Amp

[briands78]

I am currently running a PPI PC1400(gray) to 3 JL10W6 subs. I have an opportunity to pick up the sweet PC2350, should I do it? Will there be very much of a difference in the sound of my subs if I do?

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[noonej21 10+ year member]

well I am going to make some assumptions here and say that the PC1400 is the gun metal gray one(97/98 series) that puts out 800x1 at 2 ohms(or 400x1 at 4 ohms), and that you are running the older W6's(DVC 6 ohms) in series-parallel resulting in a 4-ohm load. If that is the case than it is a no-brainer, get the PC2350! The 2350 will give you 1400 watts at 4 ohms so it should be a good amount louder than what you currently have(subs are probably only getting 400 watts). Sound quality should not differ too much as the amps are both from the powerclass series.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Depending on the enclosure, those subs may not like that amount of power. In a sealed enclosure, the 400w you have is actually enough to get those subs to Xmax at lower freqs. If you want to run a ton more power, you should get ahold of a subsonic filter to keep from exceeding the excursion capability of those wonderful and hard to come by subs. You really don't want to blow them.

 

[Railrocker 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crying.gif.ec0ebefe590df0251476573bc49e46d8.gif I want old school PPI.

 

[noonej21 10+ year member]

Right now as long as my assumption is correct he is putting 400 watts total to all 3~ 130 watts each. Switching to the 2350 would give him 1400 watts for all three ~ 450 each. He is underpowering them now, and the 2350 could overpower them if the gains are not correct. It really is a toss up but I remember back in the Art Series day many people were running a triplet of the W6's with an A1200. Now I now that is only 1200 watts compared the 2350's 1400 watts but as long as the gains are set properly he should be alright(I am also assuming a sealed enclosure)

 

[Slowd N Throwd 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crying.gif.ec0ebefe590df0251476573bc49e46d8.gif I want old school PPI.

Is this considered old school PPI?

(Sale pending with QtrHorse)

 

[QtrHorse 10+ year member]

Is this considered old school PPI?

... its for sale btw //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

Is it still for sale (I thought it was spoken for, let me know)? That is technically not considered an old school PPI. The two models (gun metal/ chrome or art series) before them are considered old school.

 

[Railrocker 10+ year member]

Ya my buddy still has an old gun metal one Im trying to talk him out of cause hes not using it. But unfortunaly he knows what he has a hold of //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/up2something.gif.dd110ecf3ae4b76050d87598f2f8de7c.gif

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Right now as long as my assumption is correct he is putting 400 watts total to all 3~ 130 watts each. Switching to the 2350 would give him 1400 watts for all three ~ 450 each. He is underpowering them now, and the 2350 could overpower them if the gains are not correct. It really is a toss up but I remember back in the Art Series day many people were running a triplet of the W6's with an A1200. Now I now that is only 1200 watts compared the 2350's 1400 watts but as long as the gains are set properly he should be alright(I am also assuming a sealed enclosure)

You're not listening to me. He's not underpowering them at all. 400 watts total for the set of 3 will get all they have to give at lower freqs. I have experience from which I am speaking. It only takes about 120 watts each to get them to Xmax in a sealed box. If you don't understand that rated power handling isn't usually the limiting factor, especially in a sealed box then you have a lot to learn about the reality of car audio.

 

[noonej21 10+ year member]

While I will freely admit that my knowledge of the finer details of how speakers work is not as vast as many's the original poster asked if the subs would sound different with that particular amp. My response was that they would probably be louder. I still cannot see, maybe I am completely missing the boat here and if so please excuse my ignorance how doubling the power will not make the subs sound louder. I have switched amps to a more powerful one while keeping the same sub and enclosure and it was louder. Granted I was not using W6's I was using D Series Solo's. Regardless in the end we are going back and forth for no reason as the original poster has not chimed in since his original comment.

 

[Slowd N Throwd 10+ year member]

Is it still for sale (I thought it was spoken for, let me know)? That is technically not considered an old school PPI. The two models (gun metal/ chrome or art series) before them are considered old school.

my bad man yea its spoken for, let me fix that last post //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[QtrHorse 10+ year member]

my bad man yea its spoken for, let me fix that last post //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Thanks //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

While I will freely admit that my knowledge of the finer details of how speakers work is not as vast as many's the original poster asked if the subs would sound different with that particular amp. My response was that they would probably be louder. I still cannot see, maybe I am completely missing the boat here and if so please excuse my ignorance how doubling the power will not make the subs sound louder. I have switched amps to a more powerful one while keeping the same sub and enclosure and it was louder. Granted I was not using W6's I was using D Series Solo's. Regardless in the end we are going back and forth for no reason as the original poster has not chimed in since his original comment.

Speakers have mechanical as well as thermal limits. The thermal limits are what is listed in the specs for the sub. The mechanical limits are dictated by the size, type and tuning (for ported or bandpass) of the enclosure hat the subs are used in as well as the frequencies being played. The two limits are independent of each other and exceeding either will damage a sub. The 10W6 were very efficient and needed hardly any power to reach their mechanical limit at low frequencies. The cone of the sub travels as far as it can and powering beyond that will either add a ton of distortion, bottom the sub out causing damage or both.

In the case of the 10W6 in a sealed enclosure of .75 cf (right about what JL recommends) 220 watts will exceed its excursion capability below 30 hz. Run a larger box and the power required to reach the limit gets lower. Having twice that amount of power on tap is a recipe for a blown sub or 3. You can get away with having more than the thermal power on tap, it takes time for the heat to build up in the coil and blow them that way. You rarely run much power continuously to the point that the heat builds up. Mechanical limits on the other hand can instantly kill the sub. One instantaneous transient of the RMS rating of that amp into the trio of subs will exceed the mechanical power handling with any freq 50hz or below.

Another consideration is that the 2350 is a class A/B amp and will take a ton of upgrades to your electrical system to keep running. If you want to push the limits of those subs without having to get a couple batteries and a high output alt, do it with a Class D.

 

[briands78]

well I am going to make some assumptions here and say that the PC1400 is the gun metal gray one(97/98 series) that puts out 800x1 at 2 ohms(or 400x1 at 4 ohms), and that you are running the older W6's(DVC 6 ohms) in series-parallel resulting in a 4-ohm load. If that is the case than it is a no-brainer, get the PC2350! The 2350 will give you 1400 watts at 4 ohms so it should be a good amount louder than what you currently have(subs are probably only getting 400 watts). Sound quality should not differ too much as the amps are both from the powerclass series.

your assumptions are correct. I can drop the subs down to 1ohm by running them parrallel, parrallel, parrallel.. Positive term form amp to one sub pos terminal and then 2 jumpers to the other positives and the same way with the negatives. Is there anyway that the amp can be run at one ohm, or am I stuck at running the subs at 4ohms? The subs cannot be wired to run at 2 ohms, just 4 or 1ohm.

My system, 3JL10W6, PPI 1400, PPI 4100, Old school (pre fosgate) JL mids and tweets, Eclipse 55040.

 

[W8 a minute 10+ year member]

That PC1400 has a subsonic filter. IIRC the PC2350 does not. Just something to think about...but only if i'm correct.

PS: I'm looking for a PC2350. But If I was you I'd keep it.