Old School amps > New shit?

And you have evidence of this? Or even a logical argument how technology has changed so drastically in say, the past 10 years, that you feel confident in making such a blanket statement?
The main improvements in amps in recent history have been in their internal processing (mentioned earlier) and their price per watt ratio. The latter of which is due mainly to cheap over seas labor. So again, tell us why new amps are inherently cleaner than old ones.
Stop making sense here, you can't argue with the new amp technology.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif This argument has been going on this website(where I started audio online) since I joined.

 
And you have evidence of this? Or even a logical argument how technology has changed so drastically in say, the past 10 years, that you feel confident in making such a blanket statement?
The main improvements in amps in recent history have been in their internal processing (mentioned earlier) and their price per watt ratio. The latter of which is due mainly to cheap over seas labor. So again, tell us why new amps are inherently cleaner than old ones.
Well, you have to compare apples to apples for this to be valid. I mean, comparing a nice old school amp like an Orion, or PPI or ZED to something shitty today is not a fair comparison as the old school stuff will definitely be better, just like you can't compare the great stuff today like Brax, Helix etc. to the shitty old stuff, again, not a fair comparison. Also, what we have to remember is the old school stuff that is remembered was the best of the best at teh time, the old shitty stuff is forgotten, just like what will happen to today's great and shitty amps.

As for you other statements, there has been huge improvements in process technologies even in the last 10 years let alone the last 20. Transistors now are of a higher quality and can withstand higher temperatires and greater currents. Soldering technology has even improved greatly to allow the boards to be soldered better. Also, keep in mind that computer processing power has increased more than 10X in the last 10 years allowing better simulations and analysis to be done on designs, and with that better QC can be done because it is quicker to test more points on a board. Everfything in the manufacturing process has improved in 10 years, it is simply technology marching forward, somewhat like Moore's Law.

In the end I will stand by this statement, an amp positioned at the same market segment today will be better than an amp targeted at the same segment 10 years ago.

 
Well, you have to compare apples to apples for this to be valid. I mean, comparing a nice old school amp like an Orion, or PPI or ZED to something shitty today is not a fair comparison as the old school stuff will definitely be better, just like you can't compare the great stuff today like Brax, Helix etc. to the shitty old stuff, again, not a fair comparison.
So in other words, quality is not dictated by age, but by the quality of the manufacturing? Gee, doesn't that go completely against your original comment that newer amps are cleaner than older ones?
And even in these new top quality amps, can you explain why they are inherently cleaner than say, an old school Class A amplifier?

 
So in other words, quality is not dictated by age, but by the quality of the manufacturing? Gee, doesn't that go completely against your original comment that newer amps are cleaner than older ones?
And even in these new top quality amps, can you explain why they are inherently cleaner than say, an old school Class A amplifier?
They never built high quality amps until recently you big stupid head you. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/mad.gif.c18f003ab0ef8a0d9c27ca78d77a6392.gif

But really, there are many old school amps that were awesome in all aspects and many of them can keep up or stomp on the new ones.

 
Well, you have to compare apples to apples for this to be valid. I mean, comparing a nice old school amp like an Orion, or PPI or ZED to something shitty today is not a fair comparison as the old school stuff will definitely be better, just like you can't compare the great stuff today like Brax, Helix etc. to the shitty old stuff, again, not a fair comparison. Also, what we have to remember is the old school stuff that is remembered was the best of the best at teh time, the old shitty stuff is forgotten, just like what will happen to today's great and shitty amps.
As for you other statements, there has been huge improvements in process technologies even in the last 10 years let alone the last 20. Transistors now are of a higher quality and can withstand higher temperatires and greater currents. Soldering technology has even improved greatly to allow the boards to be soldered better. Also, keep in mind that computer processing power has increased more than 10X in the last 10 years allowing better simulations and analysis to be done on designs, and with that better QC can be done because it is quicker to test more points on a board. Everfything in the manufacturing process has improved in 10 years, it is simply technology marching forward, somewhat like Moore's Law.
The only thing that has changed since the 80s is the ability to mass produce amps faster and cheaper since machines place the components on the circuit board and they are wave soldered into place. Is the soldering better? Not really. I am sure that there are a lot of Memphis 4KW owners who will disagree with you on being soldered better!

Also, some of these new designs are next to impossible to repair due to proprietary components. Sadly, as a result, we have transitioned into a disposable society. I know some techs that will flat out refuse to work on certain models of Alpine amplifiers because of the level of difficulty to perform the repair correctly.

Getting to amp design, what has really changed since the first class A/B amp was invented some time ago? How many modern day amplifiers are still based on Robert Zeff's original 12 volt designs? Sure, transistors, resistors, capacitors have higher tolerances and better specs than some years ago, but does that alone make an amplifier better?

Don't get me wrong, Class D was a decent innovation, but it had its drawbacks when it was first released to the masses in the 90s. I knew many dealerships, some that are still in business, that stated that Class D was garbage in the 90s. Now they push it as the holy grail whether it be for Sound Quality or SPL:confused: Class D for everyone, for everything, yoo friggin who!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

The main thing that has changed in this industry is that no one is passion driven like they used to be. Jim Fosgate, Richard LeMay, and Robert Zeff all stressed using the best of the best to make their products at once upon a time. It is kind of sad to see how some companies are just names slapped on your typical, run of the mill, Asian built amplifiers!

Prime examples of names that are not what they used to be would include, but are not limited to, the following: Orion, PPI, Hifonics, MB Quart, Autotek, Phoenix Gold, Soundstream, and I could go on for a while...

 
What's the difference if you can't install or tune your setup optimally?

And cleaner? To what level? Do you think you can actually hear "dirty"?

Louder distortion from an older amp that gives you that warm, yummy nostalgic feeling.......or....louder distortion from a new amp that makes you feel part of the cool kid crowd?

How about new amps made to the standards of "old school"? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif

 
How about new amps made to the standards of "old school"? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif
Wouldn't TRU Technology come close to being a new amp made to old school standards? If so, I still can't afford one:crying:

 
For the last time you cannot compare new school amps with old school amps because they have not been out long enough. There are hundreds of stories of people having older amps in their cars for 10+ years. In 1992, I had 2 punch 75 amps installed in my Civic with an AF 2 crossover running a set of comps in the back and polk audio 6.5's in the front with 2 10's. I kept that setup for 7 years and when I sold the car there were no problems. Until there are stories of people keeping Sundown, Atomic, DD, Stetson, etc in their cars for 10+ years and they have earned their reputation for durability and quality, then hush. Everything sounds good the first year like a brand new car then once it is used over and over and over and is reliable and durable then ok now a case can be made for quality. The only quality we know about these new school products is what we hear on these forums or see in these car shows. Precision power, older RF, Linear Power, Lanzar (optidrive), Audio Art, older Hifonics, ESX, older Orion, McIntosh, ADS have been around for at least 10+ years. Dam it let these new school Korean and Chinese made products be around for some time then give them props.

Hail to the old school proven stuff, hand made that has stood the test of time.

 
Wouldn't TRU Technology come close to being a new amp made to old school standards? If so, I still can't afford one:crying:
You know exactly how I think, Chris. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif All factors aside, though...I still love me some LP action.

 
I will put my old school pg amp up against any of the new highend suff. Just replaced all the caps. Should run 15 more years without any issues //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

IMG00147-20090102-22301.jpg


 
I will put my old school pg amp up against any of the new highend suff. Just replaced all the caps. Should run 15 more years without any issues //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif
IMG00147-20090102-22301.jpg
OOOH I have one of those!!! It doesn't work right yet though //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif. It's going to be fixed soon.

 
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