michael vick is ******* god

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Lmao.. Vick is a beast either way. Hate all you want about him doing what he did. Aint going to change anything at all. He still a beast.

And that's all that matters, that's he's a good football player. He, and the NFL, count on people like you to excuse his crime because he's successful. How good a player would he need to be to make you excuse him murdering your grandmother? Just curious. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

How good a player would he need to be to make you excuse him murdering your grandmother? Just curious. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

A comment like that takes this argument well past the point of ridiculous, man. If Vick had been found guilty of murdering a human being in cold blood, he would most definitely never play football again.

I know this opens up the whole "Stallworth" argument again, but there are EXTREME differences between what happened with Donte and an actual cold blooded killing. Stallworth made an ignorant mistake of extraordinary magnitude, and someone lost their life because of it, but it was far from murder.

 

[Mookie 10+ year member]

And that's all that matters, that's he's a good football player. He, and the NFL, count on people like you to excuse his crime because he's successful. How good a player would he need to be to make you excuse him murdering your grandmother? Just curious. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I'm sure a human being and a dog are a little different. Actually alot different. And really, I love animals too, but its a dam dog. a wild but tamed animal. Who cares.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Your argument holds very little weight with me, dude. The fact that these killings were done for the sake of entertainment doesn't make them any more "wrong" than killing a deer, fish, cat, pig, cow, squirrel, etc for the fun of it. Killing is killing. A life is a life. What Vick did strikes a nerve with a lot of people, because certain individuals feel as if it's taboo to kill a dog. Most of these people have no problem eating a hamburger that came from a cow killed by exsanguination.
Having seen what I've seen, and done what I've done, I have a difficult time caring about the lives of some dogs. I think it's shitty that they were tortured, but one could argue that slaughterhouses all over the world are torturning millions of animals as we speak. In the grand scheme of things, I just can't get worried about it...

Straw man argument. You keep trying to portray me as arguing its more wrong because it was dogs, yet you cant produce one single quote in which I made that claim in any way, shape, or form. If people brutalized squirrels to train them in the art of squirrel fighting, Id feel the same way. You offer the killing of fish as an example of animal cruelty, but then say "I have a difficult time caring about the lives of some dogs" and "I hate pitbulls". If anything, you are the one showing a propensity to hold dogs, and/or pitbulls, to a different standard than other animals, not me.

 

[Mookie 10+ year member]

Wait you guys better start saying I'm a bad person and I kill animals since I just fed my piranhas some gold fish to feed on. And yes thats my entertainment when I'm super bored.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I'm sure a human being and a dog are a little different. Actually alot different. And really, I love animals too, but its a dam dog. a wild but tamed animal. Who cares.

I realize killing your grandmother is a higher crime than animal cruelty, which is why I asked how good a player he'd need to be to allow that (worse) crime.

Im not even really an 'animal lover'. I just think someone who would torture animals over extended periods of time shows a mental disturbance. Im not even arguing all people who commit a crime of animal cruelty deserve no second chance. Ive asked multiple times now for examples of things Vick has done, voluntarily, to show he's rehabilitated. Nobody has given a single example yet.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Wait you guys better start saying I'm a bad person and I kill animals since I just fed my piranhas some gold fish to feed on. And yes thats my entertainment when I'm super bored.

Ah, so Im wrong to discuss a worse crime of murder, even in a non equivalent manner, but you are fine in comparing FEEDING one animal to another for food as the same/similar to beating an animal systematically, starving it, etc. Gotcha.

 

[LazyRider 10+ year member]

And my point was, plenty of people work just as hard, or harder, and dont end up with a career that makes them millions and millions of dollars every year. But my original point wasn't even about the money, it was about the fame, and the repercussions it has on society. With fame comes responsibility. Vick stopped dog fighting because he was CAUGHT. Vick went to jail because he was FORCED to. What's he done, voluntarily, to show he's changed? What's he done, voluntarily, to show kids they are idolizing a decent person? Seriously, what? If he's donated to charities, or done much more than the bare minimum to get back to his former glory, Ive not heard about it.Maybe Im just out of the loop, and he's donating a sizable amount of his wealth, to the SPCA. Has he? Has he gone around to schools and talked to kids about the lessons they can learn from his mistakes? Has he done anything beyond basically 'laying low till the anger dies down'?But again, the NFL has more responsibility to keep their league stocked with honest, decent, law abiding citizens, than does any one individual in that league.

My comment on having things 'handed to him' was probably poor wording on my part, because its spawned this side argument on how hard NFL players work, that was unintended. Do I think professional athletes make more money than their effort justifies, in comparison to the rest of us. Yes, they obviously do. But I did not intend to imply they dont work hard. I guess I over estimated some members here understanding that I realize pro athletes actually work at their career. How hard they work, Im not really interested in debating with you.

Wow, this shows how little you know about Vick's situation. He has done tons of voluntary work outside of what was court ordered. You should do research on the dude before you pass judgement.

That's a huge generalization //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif. There's so many different factors to account for and it's nowhere near as simple and clear cut as your statement makes it out to be.

 

[LazyRider 10+ year member]

I dont know the intimate details of his crime in this regard, but I do know most dog fighters 'train' their pitbulls in bloodlust by letting them kill other less potent breeds of dog.
And I dont say the following to try to sway you, or suggest your opinion is 'wrong', but imo to kill helpless animals in the fashion most successful dog fighters do, is boderline insane. It certainly shows at least a certain degree of detachment from morality. Its one thing to kill 'for sport', putting a bullet through an animals brain for the quick kill. Its another thing entirely to brutalize animals, torture them, starve them, beat them, etc. Im no prissy tree hugger pacifist, but even I have to admit that **** is simply cruel and immoral, for nothing more than personal entertainment.

I view "hunting" for sport as equal to dog fighting. This is why I never understood why people were acting like Vick ***** a little girl or something. I think "hunting" for sport and killing dogs for entertainment are both wrong. But yet "hunting" for sport is perfectly acceptable in society and people were acting like Vick did the most unforgivable thing in the world. He did his crime, didn't complain and bitch when he served his time. Came out and completely turned his life around. I honestly don't understand why people hate him so much. And have no idea why people say he shouldn't have been allowed back in the NFL. I haven't heard any reasonable explanation on why what he did should affect his eligibility to play in the NFL. Maybe you can explain

 

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

Straw man argument. You keep trying to portray me as arguing its more wrong because it was dogs, yet you cant produce one single quote in which I made that claim in any way, shape, or form. If people brutalized squirrels to train them in the art of squirrel fighting, Id feel the same way. You offer the killing of fish as an example of animal cruelty, but then say "I have a difficult time caring about the lives of some dogs" and "I hate pitbulls". If anything, you are the one showing a propensity to hold dogs, and/or pitbulls, to a different standard than other animals, not me.

Wrong, I'm protraying your side of the argument spot on. You're making it sound awful that the animals were killed for the sake of entertainment. I'm simply saying that doesn't bother me. I view a killing as a killing. Suffocating fish because there are no tanks to move them to is no better than electrocuting a dog for the pure hell of it. They're both equally wrong.

And let's talk about hunting for a moment. Did you know that it isn't at all uncommon for a squirrel, rabbit or raccoon to be kept in a tiny cage while dogs are constantly provoking it? They do this to "train" the dogs. Often times, at the end of it, they'll throw the scared shitless animal to the dogs to be torn apart.

Is it okay for someone to shoot a deer, decapitate it for a trophy and leave it's body there to rot? Is it okay to shoot a turkey, cut it's tailfeathers & beard off and leave it there to rot?

I'm simply saying this; Vick's actions were no more cold blooded/immoral/wrong than things that're happening EVERYWHERE around you. The lives of the dogs he killed, or his associates killed, mean no more to me than the lives of the deer being "hunted". I have no problem with a man doing something stupid, being held accountable for it, and then taking a second opportunity to better the lives of himself, his friends and his family. It just isn't a very big deal to me. And furthermore, it's old news. This whole Mike Vick argument is tired as hell, man. Find another cause to champion already.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Wow, this shows how little you know about Vick's situation. He has done tons of voluntary work outside of what was court ordered. You should do research on the dude before you pass judgement.
That's a huge generalization //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif. There's so many different factors to account for and it's nowhere near as simple and clear cut as your statement makes it out to be.

Read, again, bro. I asked what he's done, I did not generalize anything.

 

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

Read, again, bro. I asked what he's done, I did not generalize anything.

If this Mike Vick situation is so close to your heart, why can't you research it yourself?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Wrong, I'm protraying your side of the argument spot on. You're making it sound awful that the animals were killed for the sake of entertainment. I'm simply saying that doesn't bother me. I view a killing as a killing. Suffocating fish because there are no tanks to move them to is no better than electrocuting a dog for the pure hell of it. They're both equally wrong.
And let's talk about hunting for a moment. Did you know that it isn't at all uncommon for a squirrel, rabbit or raccoon to be kept in a tiny cage while dogs are constantly provoking it? They do this to "train" the dogs. Often times, at the end of it, they'll throw the scared shitless animal to the dogs to be torn apart.

Is it okay for someone to shoot a deer, decapitate it for a trophy and leave it's body there to rot? Is it okay to shoot a turkey, cut it's tailfeathers & beard off and leave it there to rot?

I'm simply saying this; Vick's actions were no more cold blooded/immoral/wrong than things that're happening EVERYWHERE around you. The lives of the dogs he killed, or his associates killed, mean no more to me than the lives of the deer being "hunted". I have no problem with a man doing something stupid, being held accountable for it, and then taking a second opportunity to better the lives of himself, his friends and his family. It just isn't a very big deal to me. And furthermore, it's old news. This whole Mike Vick argument is tired as hell, man. Find another cause to champion already.

If those hunters go out in the woods, chain the deer to a tree, starve it, beat it, and otherwise brutalize it for long periods of time, before killing it and taking its head as a trophy, your correlation would be accurate. Unfortunately for your correlation, they dont do this.

You keeping saying what it means to you. As I said before, Im not here to judge your personal opinion. But if you present unjustifiable parallels, I will disgree.

Ive not tried to justify training dogs for hunting by using cages squirrels. So I feel no need to try and debate that point.

You must not know very many deer hunters. I know many, and none I know leave all that venison to rot. Im sure some do, but they are the exception, not the norm. And as I said above, the typical manner of killing a deer is a relatively quick death. Comparing deer hunting to dog fighting is has many obvious flaws.

 

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

I'd also like to say that I originally felt that Vick should've been banned from the NFL. I changed my mind after he did significant jail time and lost millions of dollars.

 

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

If those hunters go out in the woods, chain the deer to a tree, starve it, beat it, and otherwise brutalize it for long periods of time, before killing it and taking its head as a trophy, your correlation would be accurate. Unfortunately for your correlation, they dont do this.
You keeping saying what it means to you. As I said before, Im not here to judge your personal opinion. But if you present unjustifiable parallels, I will disgree.

Ive not tried to justify training dogs for hunting by using cages squirrels. So I feel no need to try and debate that point.

You must not know very many deer hunters. I know many, and none I know leave all that venison to rot. Im sure some do, but they are the exception, not the norm. And as I said above, the typical manner of killing a deer is a relatively quick death. Comparing deer hunting to dog fighting is has many obvious flaws.

I don't give a fat happy shit what you're trying to justify here, homie. All I'm saying is that I don't care, AT ALL, about Mike Vick killing some dogs. I don't care that he did it for the fun of it. I don't care that he's now making big money in the NFL again. I JUST DON'T CARE. There are far more important matters to concern yourself with.

What's funny is that you're constantly willing to argue in circles with complete strangers. What do you get out of this, man? It's also funny that you say I must not know any hunters. I live in WV, dude. 90% of the male population are hunters.