madisound?

[1loudsuv 10+ year member]

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35_40_274&products_id=387

anyone ever hear that setup? are they any good?

thinking of dropping my def tech but like ive said I am really really gonna look at what is out their. I dunno but before I even bought my current towers ive had my eyes on that kit and I hear allot of sq guys use those drivers.

Click to read more...

 

[1loudsuv 10+ year member]

on yah and if I get them is this crossover recommended or should i stick to the one the set comes with?

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35_40_274&products_id=390

 

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

I never heard the kit but those are high end Seas drivers. Because it's high end

doesn't guarantee SQ, but you can place this kit on your list of candidates. I would use their crossover.

I never heard this design, but they use my favorite midrange vendor, PHL.

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Phlea.html

[FYI, I chose PHL over Seas for my high end stuff]

PHL1280 is similar to PHL1240 {16 ohm} which is the same as PHL1340 {8 ohm}.

I haven't used that particular model, but I used others. I know someone who

made a system on PHL1340 and compared it to the same design using Seas Excel.

His conclusion was the PHL has a better top end, but the Seas Excel has a slight

edge in bass. Overall, he seemed to prefer PHL.

More kits;

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/

http://www.zaphaudio.com/

http://www.rjbaudio.com/

If you want to get deeper and make a 3 way [sub not included], a bigger

tower, fully active, this general recipe is great. But sourcing the special

wideband woofers isn't so easy. Perhaps I could find some alternatives.

http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showthread.php?t=191130

Shortcut;

http://members.shaw.ca/lcleven/home_page1.html

I talked to the dad via email 3+ years ago. They auditioned so many commercial

speakers and couldn't find anything sweet, hence they gambled on a DIY project.

He was thrill with the design, nothing can touch it as far as he as concerned. They

were also buying some Pass Labs X-amps at the time and adding an LT subwoofer.

Another using that recipe {ribbon, dual PHL mids, dual 15"}

http://feandil.tripod.com/finished_pics/index.album?i=5

[ignore the source diagram, he never did that. IIRC, he used QSC RMX amps

with DBX $500 signal processing and Marantz]. He also auditioned high end

system prior to the build and he even auditioned Wilson Audio and Kharma.

He thinks that design is superior to what he hear in the store. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

AR3's system is also unique, AC ribbon, PHL 10" midrange and Lambda woofer.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21523

AR3's system was conceived by Andre @ E-speakers, the same guy who hooked

me up with the PHL product.

It's funny that his design mimmicks my general idea to use those combinations.

[because it's uber //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif ]

In all cases, the cabinet design can be what you want. The basic recipe is uber

as long as you go active and source the wideband woofers and run a dedicated

separate subwoofer.

 

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

A lower cost MTM design with different crossover variations

http://www.rjbaudio.com/RS180MTM/rs180-rs28-mtm.html

"RS180 MTM Crossover Comparison - Six different crossover versions for an MTM design using the Dayton Reference Series RS180 woofer and RS28a tweeter based on the cabinet for the Dr. K MTM project. Crossovers include RJB Audio 2 way, RJB Audio 2.5 way, Dr. K MTM, Modula MTM, dB and Natalie designs with an interactive response plot display."

Dr. K's

http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/dr-k-mtm/index.html

Modulas and Natalie are found on HTguide forum

.. and RJB has his own crossover design.

 

[1loudsuv 10+ year member]

let me add //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I don't know jack squat in building crossovers //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[hempy 10+ year member]

Why is that kit so expensive?? The woofers are like $20, and even though the tweeters are like 200, I don't seem to understand why it costs so much, especially without cabinets. The crossovers look like they use pretty common components...

 

[1loudsuv 10+ year member]

Why is that kit so expensive?? The woofers are like $20, and even though the tweeters are like 200, I don't seem to understand why it costs so much, especially without cabinets. The crossovers look like they use pretty common components...

In which set the one I posted originally? IF so they are not $20 try closer to $200 per woofer.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=149&products_id=782

 

[hempy 10+ year member]

In which set the one I posted originally? IF so they are not $20 try closer to $200 per woofer.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=149&products_id=782

Ohh. I was looking at the shielded upgrade and thought it was the price of the woofer. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

let me add //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
I don't know jack squat in building crossovers //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Building as in "I don't know how to design a crossover"

or

building as "I don't know how to solder the crossover parts?"

The cyber kits have crossover design already and crossover assembly isn't hard either, practice soldering on junk wires.

The esoteric DIY 3 way designs would be best with an active setup, no passive

crossovers. You can use a $120 analog crossover or the much better $250 digital

crossover and you need some extra amp channels. Adjusting the crossover is easy.

It's easier to mix and match drivers with an active design, less design variables

to worry about. Just apply some common sense and you are up and running with

high SQ.

For instance, if you chose an active crossover that has 8th order crossover slope,

this pretty much guarantees that you can use any combination of drivers,

even the high end Seas, Focal, etc. with exotic cone materials that have

performance problems that yield to bad sound if you don't tame the cone

breakup modes.. rofl ... You can even use *some* harsh metal dome tweeters...

On the other hand, if your active crossover was limited to 2nd order, you might

want to buy non-metal dome tweeters, and paper treated midranges like PHL

which have less problems. But if you have 8th order, you can use almost any

driver combinations.

.. or you can ditch these high end ideas and rule planet earth and

make a line array, it's only extra time & money //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/*******.gif.a649d21efc0d1fd4890a6428166586c1.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

There is a B&C 'pure mid' that looks interesting, 1/2 of the cost of PHL,

but I never got a chance to audition them. Recently I got word from someone

who did and they really like the sound.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=294-650

They claim it's cone treated.

IMO, paper treated mids have best sound over fancy materials.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=294-651

 

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

Ribbon tweeter sound

3 way;

LCY ribbon {for wider dispersion}

PHL 1120 {or Audax PR170M0, B&C mid}

Lambda caliber 12" - 15" woofer

-- add seperate subwoofer

2 way TMM;

LCY ribbon {for wider dispersion}

Dual PHL 1240 {for 8 ohm wiring, or dual PHL1340 for 4 ohm wiring}

-- add seperate subwoofer

Higher dynamics/SPL

Fountek NeoPro5i

PHL2520 8" mid or PHL 3450

Dual Lambda caliber 15" woofer

Ultimate uber

Line A http://www.impawards.com/2004/posters/ray_ver3.jpg

There are so many good combinations for uber speakers with an active rig //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[1loudsuv 10+ year member]

So if you had 3-4 grand to spend what would you get? need a matching center and l/r. no line arrays I dont like how they look lol I am not looking for high ouput just pure sq. I will have a separate sub.

I was on audiogon a while ago and their was a good amount of towers and bookshelfs using those seas drivers costing from 4 grand to 15 grand for a pair of used speakers!

 

[1loudsuv 10+ year member]

oh yah what active crossover do you recomend? it has to be able to run the center and left and right speakers. outlaw i think had one?

 

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

Pure SQ?.............. headphones //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fro.gif.c695f1f814b01c4ad99fe7f8cccadd29.gif

What I do is buy interesting drivers and learn how they perform, then you

can start to visualize a design that interests you. I really don't know what

you will like, nobody does. You can audition store speakers to get a baseline

idea on what you want.

You can choose a basic recipe, TM, TMM, MTM, TMW, WMTMW, etc., and try

to find driver candidates for the job at hand. Then condense your list and

buy some driver samples. You don't need to buy two of the same drivers,

just buy at least 3 - 4 unique tweeters and mids. Sample the drivers as is.

Unused drivers can be sold or reused for another project. This is how I would do

tackle a project but it's a different approach than other DIY'ers.

It's not a cheap methodology, but I get results because if you sample enough

drivers you will understand them and know right away what you like. You can do

a mono {not stereo} audition just to understand it's sonic character, just

buy one of each driver candidate.

A Behringer DCX2496 will be a great development tool so you can figure out

how the drivers perform and you can use it in the final install if you want.

It's a 3 way digital crossover. You can use it for L/R mains, up to 3 way design.

You can make a tweeter, midrange, woofer design and one DCX will cross it over.

If you want a 2 way, then you don't use the second pair of outputs.

If you want an active center channel then you need another active crossover

or a crossover with more outputs. An HT active install will get crazy as you need

more active crossover outputs and amp channels, but you have complete control

over the sound as you can adjust everything; crossover frequency, gain, PEQ,

delays, plus you can store these settings in different memory locations if you

want to create different sonic profiles. My line array has 12 profiles for different

listening scenarios.

DCX cons: It has no master volume control. Your source needs to control the

volume *OR* you need to control the volume on the output side of all the

DCX outputs. Some people actually do this with esoteric configurations. I think

they are panic freaks. DCX can AES/EBU digital *or* it can take SPDIF if you

buy a $20 SPDIF-AES converter transformer {Canare}, but you still need to

control the volume. I use a Roland M1000 mixer only because it has a digital

volume control. But that unit is discontinued.

My two mains;

Player->M1000->DCX->Amps->speakers

DCX accepts analog input but because it's a pro unit, it likes a strong

XLR signal from an XLR source, for example some home receivers have XLR

output {IIRC B&K, Anthem, etc}, a preamp like Parasound Halo has XLR output,

these outputs with higher voltage are nice for a DCX. But it's not mandatory,

you can use a cheap RCA to XLR adapter and still run the system but you drive

the DCX with a lower input voltage, it works but not as great as the other solution.

If you want a simple home system then these ideas might be too crazy,

you probably need to just build some kits with passive crossovers and

be done with it.

Wildcard:

We know what store bought speakers can be very expensive to get

great sound and if you didn't want to DIY, then I'd probably use some of

the internet builders to make me a system, but it could cost more than your

budget, you will get a much better value than store bought speakers. You

can drop $5k on a pair of store speakers and you may feel robbed,

but you can drop that money on certain builders and feel better about the

purchase.

Example;

http://www.selahaudio.com/

Floorstanding;

I like the RC4 design. Good recipe. I don't think you will find a store speaker

using this caliber of driver for that price. I will estimate this system would

probably cost $15k or more if you found it in the store.

http://www.selahaudio.com/id67.html

Monitors;

http://www.selahaudio.com/id53.html

Salk has nice stuff.

http://www.salksound.com/

snip..

"Normally, speakers of this quality retail from $12000.00 to $20,000.00 or more per pair. But because these are custom-crafted and you are purchasing direct, you can expect to pay considerably less. HT3 pricing starts at $3899.00 per pair. "

Others to check out.

http://www.rawacoustics.com/

http://www.gr-research.com/

Some of these vendors have kits which is probably just drivers and crossovers,

you have to make the box. I would assume they have the box plans to give out.

Summary:

1. Store speakers - Could cost you big money to get the sound you want,

go audition stuff to get an idea where you stand.

2. Internet vendors like the ones I linked - Either kit {you build the box} or

they build the completed system. Better value than store speakers because

you cut out the middleman.

3. Cyber kits - You can just cloning premade designs published in cyber. This is

a good choice.

4. Your own DIY design - More time and more money because you have to

cherry pick the drivers that you like.

 

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

Did you read Zaph's driver tests {scroll down}

http://www.zaphaudio.com/

If you wanted to DIY, fully active, then choose your driver samples wisely

to mimimize costs. Start with tweeters and work down.

Tweeter tests.

http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/

Chose the ones that seem interesting and buy one of each for sampling.

Or... just take Zaph's word and pick the best bang for buck tweeter.

For tweeters I'd probably look for ones that can hang with a 1.7khz - 2.2khz

crossover frequency range as you can get better sound and imaging if the

tweeter operates this low, but with a steeper crossover slope, lets say

4th - 8th order. The cheaper tweeters may not be a nice in this frequency range

so you might want to rule out some of those $10 - $20 tweeters. lol

For mids you can gamble on the PHL product if you want, I like their products.

They have higher senstiviity pure midranges and some midwoofers, 6.5" all the

way up in size.

If you chose a good tweeter, PHL mid and later wanted to make your

own passive crossover, the quality tweeter will mate easily to many of

the PHL product because the PHL sound is more tolerable than the fancy

drivers using exotic cone materials {ie, Seas, Focal, etc.}. I can listen

to a PHL mid 'full range' and not be annoyed by cone breakup mods like

you hear from the other brands. In theory, you could just install a cheap

shallow crossover, 1st or 2nd order and it will work nice. Just make sure your

quality tweeter is good enough to handle this, so choose the tweeter wisely.

 

[1loudsuv 10+ year member]

You can use it for L/R mains, up to 3 way design.

You can make a tweeter, midrange, woofer design and one DCX will cross it over.

If you want a 2 way, then you don't use the second pair of outputs.

Cant I use it in a 2 way design and use it for left/right/center? and get a 7 channel amp? or 3 pro audio amp?

Says online it has 3 inputs and 6 outputs.

Remember ill be powering the rears with my receiver. (dont care how those sounds lol)