My biggest concern was identifying myself as someone with a vested interest in the advice I was giving. I was also concerned at the time about the direction DIYMA was taking, but I've given up on that hope. Promoting myself through my signature was pointless when you started threads congratulating me on most of the forums. Your subsequent actions and comments made those gestures seem odd, but I certainly got a lot of exposure in the car audio realm.PArt 2 of 2At this time, Don and I had gone back and forth a couple of times about advertising on DIYMA, and how I would like to handle the situation. We both recognized some what of a conflict but as the owner of the site, it was up to me to make the decision as to how I would proceed.
A lot of this was just the death throes of a once great forum. My situation was just the issue people grabbed on to to voice their dismay. I had nothing to do with it and made several public requests that it stop.So at this same time there were like, 2 or 3 members that saw the aftermath, and had no clue that we had been going back and forth, as far back as 6 or 7 weeks earlier...
... From there, the drama carried over to this forum where several upset members started in on the insults. They brought up these old topics that were long addressed and in my eyes, amended. But still hurt feeling, resentment and lost trust stings, so still the personal attacks and insults continue.
I think you are confusing your marketing claim about higher rubber content with established fact. I doubt anyone is going to be interested in the technical reasons why this is either irrelevant or even a negative characteristic, so I won't go into it. It is funny that you don't seem to be able to stop. There's nothing wrong with marketing claims, it just feels out of context.SDS – CLD Tile rip off
This one I catch a lot of hell for too.
Don came out with a product that is awesome. All of his testing lead him to the conclusion that many in the industry have known for years. Stronger foil + higher rubber content = better vibration damping.
I'm glad you are taking a more neutral position on the 25% coverage concept and are not repeating the allegations you have made elsewhere that I am conning people. I was embarrassed for you when your explanations of why full coverage was optimal inevitably degenerated into the kind of gibberish that an unsupportable position requires. Any CLD is a poor choice for an SPL competitor so it's really hard to see how anyone can extrapolate from: "may or may not do more good than harm in extreme applications" to something that has any value to most users. And yes, some applications may benefit from up 40% coverage or so. Getting people to understand the folly and disadvantages of 100% coverage, or worse yet, multiple layers at 100% coverage is more important than that exact number. As long as people understand that there should be a good reason to go over 25%, I'm happy. Let's be clear, since you seem to think people will think less of me for not coming up with the idea of targeted application of vibration dampers. I didn't. I'd expect people to think less of me if I had.When Don came out with the CLD tiles, I felt threatened. This was an awesome product that has a fierce marketing campaign. The 25% idea is very effective for its intended purpose and an easy to understand approach to noise treatment. The tiles are strong, effective and profitable. Just because I hold a slightly different view point of the 25% idea does not mean that I do not agree with Dons approach. Mine is not all that different from Don’s. I feel that 25% is the least you should do for a constraint layer damper, to reduce the harmonics in the sheet metal. The point of diminishing returns does kick in around 25-30% but that does not mean that the returns stop. I just means that the returns start costing more the higher you get. While 100% and 200% coverage is certainly overkill for most applications, there are some applications where 50%-80% are acceptable, especially when dealing with the insane amounts of energy that some of the SPL competitors place up on the sheet metal of their cars. Dons program works very well for its intended audience, but to apply the idea to every single person, in every single car and assume that they all have the same exact goals is asking too much from any one product. I am sure that I will catch hell for my stance from some of the more vocal forum members, but perhaps this is where we will simply not agree.
The 25% idea hasn't gained currency because of marketing, fierce or otherwise. It hasn't been accepted because I have perverted the credibility I built with the original SDS in a brilliant reverse marketing campaign. It has been accepted because it works and because engineers and scientists who deal with these things in applications that are much more critical and demanding than aftermarket automotive have stepped forward and said: "Thank god somebody is finally advocating the proper use of constrained layer vibration dampers".
I appreciate the positive comments, but "fierce marketing campaign" is getting mighty close to the con man allegation again. I believe we would all be better off in every product category if people selling products said: "This is my understanding of the science involved with this product and this is the way to make the best use of it at the lowest possible cost". If that's "fierce marketing", I'd like to see more of it everywhere. Slipping the "profitable" snark in is ironic in a way I don't care to go in to here. In reality, telling people the truth is the fiercest marketing there is.
That's a cute story and it may even be true. I've seen you use it other places in the last few days. I can assure you and everyone else that CLD Tiles are not an off the shelf product. They are the result of many months of development and testing. If a comparable product had been available and its proper use encouraged, I wouldn't have felt the need to enter the market. I find it interesting that you say this product existed already. You announced your intention to bring it to market the day after I launched the new venture, but it took months for you to actually have something in hand to sell. The OEM's have been using patches for decades.As far as me claiming that I invented the tiles method, this is untrue. I can not make this claim, and neither can anyone that has been in the sound deadening industry for anything less that about 20 years.
I have said this before, and many use it against me. I can see why some would think I implied that but I was not the one that created these things based on what I have said online, but really, all I did was leave out the finer details.
These patches were presented to me by my adhesive manufacture a couple of years ago. They had some left over material from another vendor that was very similar to our product only the patches were smaller than our sheets, and the foil was thicker. I got samples, and tested them out. These worked well, but I wanted to increase the adhesive thickness and try to get to a certain weight. We went back and forth with different butyl formulations a couple of times, and eventually I decided against taking their extra inventory, or going in the direction of the custom product. I can not speaker for Don, so I do not now if he sourced these on his own, or reinvented them, or was simply offered them from his vendor. He very well may have found a custom formulator and brought in the thick foil himself and started from scratch. That is a pretty good possibility. I honestly don’t know, or care, but what I do care about is having the best product in the industry. Second Skin has always had a reputation for being the best so as the owner of the company I had to react to the change in the market. I don’t expect everyone to understand or agree with my decision to come out with the SPL Tiles, but for me, it makes sense. The market changed, and unless I changed with it, unless I adapted to the competition I run the risk of losing out on a share of the market that I certainly enjoy owning, but obviously don’t enjoy sharing.
It was a business move that I made, and stand by.
I don't have anything to say about the the rest since it doesn't involve me. I wouldn't have bother responding at all if you hadn't decided that your mea culpa moment presented an irresistible opportunity to slip in some shots at me.
I told you when I launched the commercial SDS that there was plenty of room in the market for both of us. We both had good quality products and people could choose the approach that made sense to them. All of the shady operations out there were where I expected to take market share since I could compete on price selling top quality products.
If I understand what you just wrote, insecurity made you think it was all or nothing for SS. That's a shame. I don't think any of this drama needed to happen. Advertise on DIYMA but let it be. Believe in your own products enough not to panic and leave yourself open to all sorts of accusations and suspicions.
I am not one of the "two sides" people keep referring to. I'm perfectly happy doing what I am doing and have never given any thought to what my competitors are up to. This isn't just a business to me, it is a passion. I'm satisfied with helping people find the right solution to their problems - even if it means not selling them anything at all. Naturally I'm happier when I do sell them something //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I'm happiest when I hear from them after they've completed their project to tell me that got the results they wanted. I'm still bummed about the guy who wasn't able to completely eliminate the whine from his transmission.
