Kina dissatisfied... 3 12" JL 12W6's

[BassAddictJ 5,000+ posts]

ya dude...those'll take a good 500-600w aa piece....no wonder they arent banging too hard, they've got 230w a piece....and thats probly before imp ris....

first, get more power, second, new box......ported and tuned fairly low and itll sound like hot ***....in the meantime play around with differant firing positions

 

[hoodkid 10+ year member]

I finally got my 3 12" W6v1's in my Ranger. They are in a downfiring sealed box behind the seats, each sub getting about 230rms apiece. The JL's have plenty of kick, but are... Not as good as I thought they'd be. There is plenty of SPL and clarity, flat and uncolored freq response... but the subs are barely working most of the time, even at peak listening tuned volumes.
When they are unleashed with no consideration of SQ (taking off the -12db attenuation switch for instance) they punish the inside of my truck so badly that the rattles are unbearable. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif Within minutes my ears are begging for a stop to the madness. But, all in all it doesn't seem that loud to me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

I am not impressed with the low low end response, I'm used to ported 15's that absolutely dominate the super lows, and the 12's handle it but not as well as I'd hoped.

Plus, the box takes up alot of room... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/uhoh.gif.c07307dd22ee7e63e22fc8e9c614d1fd.gif

Thats real crazy right there, because my boy got 3 12 inch w6v1's in a 3-way sealed box, off a jl 500/1, and man //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif , i have never witnessed low-end like he had my old setup of 1 12in L7 and 1200 watts wasnt even louder than his setup off 500 watts, his trunk was dynomatted too though also

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

ya dude...those'll take a good 500-600w aa piece

No, they won't. At least not without smacking the backplate they won't.

ported and tuned fairly low and itll sound like hot ***....in the meantime play around with differant firing positions

You do realize that the proper ported box for the ORIGINAL 12W6s needed to be on the order of 12Cf for the 3? He's working with a pickup. He doesn't have 12cf to work with. His problem is either unrealisitc expectations on those subs or his amplifier/crossover settings or a combination of the two.

 

[grassroots 10+ year member]

ya dude...those'll take a good 500-600w aa piece....no wonder they arent banging too hard, they've got 230w a piece....and thats probly before imp ris....

first, get more power, second, new box......ported and tuned fairly low and itll sound like hot ***....in the meantime play around with differant firing positions

i had a treo of sealed 10w6v1s on a 16mc1000d in my ranger (~400w a piece) and they would take an absolute beating... i wouldn't recommend more then that though. depends on how big his enclosure was i guess...

but like mentioned, they're sq subs in a sealed box. sounds like your expectations are just too high...

 

[LoudCrownVic 5,000+ posts]

No, they won't. At least not without smacking the backplate they won't.


You do realize that the proper ported box for the ORIGINAL 12W6s needed to be on the order of 12Cf for the 3? He's working with a pickup. He doesn't have 12cf to work with. His problem is either unrealisitc expectations on those subs or his amplifier/crossover settings or a combination of the two.

You are probably right. I expected alot from these subs. It took me a long time to get my ish together, they sat around for a year before they werre installed and I expected it to be the best setup I've ever had.

Well, Ive had a 15" Bhrama ported to 35, a S15L7 ported to 40, 2 15" Orions sealed... 3 12's don't have the stuff to compare with that, although their response is adequate but not jaw dropping. It's hard to go from a Bhrama pushing so much air with kickdrum hits that you can feel air move from the back to the front of the hatchback, to these 12's that just sem to pressurize the cabin

I think my largest problem is interior rattles are very bad. The divided back windows and the rear plastic rattle horribly, and I have NO deaning anywhere. Sound quality and sound perception come from sound coming from silence, not from wind noise, rattles, tire howl, and my whining and complaining.

Not entirely sure of my crossover settings, my headunit's xover is difficult to understand but I believe they are as correct as can be. I tried a couple different settings and the original (which is "80 hz pass" on my eclipse) seems to be the best.

 

[Pyro_By_Nature 5,000+ posts]

Rockin' the hot glue? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eyebrow.gif.fe2c18d8720fe8c7eaed347b21ea05a5.gif lol

You just expected too much, nohing more to it.BTW: The drummer's bass drum is not supposed to be behind you //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[Pyro_By_Nature 5,000+ posts]

BTW: For those mids., to get them to sound their best you need to design the crossover for them.Otherwise they aren't that impressive.

3" horn tweets, poorly set-up mids., and an eclipse HU? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

I'm not trying to be an ***, I'm just trying to help you out.

 

[headless 10+ year member]

Huh... i see you've got a CD8454; i found the crossover settings very easy to use on that deck. You have any questions about what the options mean or how to change them? I'm happy to answer them (still got the deck & manual too). A 12db/octave x-over @ 80hz is about perfect for my 12W6v1 in a sealed 1.2cf box also...i've tried other settings but wasn't happy with them. The 12w6v1 in a sealed box doesn' get as 'thunderous' as my other 10' ported setups i've used...but it does get the job done. I give mine a slight boost @ 40hz to make up for the 'thin' sounding low-end. I think a 12w6v1 in a ported setup would be quite impressive.

 

[LoudCrownVic 5,000+ posts]

BTW: For those mids., to get them to sound their best you need to design the crossover for them.Otherwise they aren't that impressive.
3" horn tweets, poorly set-up mids., and an eclipse HU? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

I'm not trying to be an ***, I'm just trying to help you out.

Much appreciated. It'd be nice to have help on this really, and some free time and money would help too.

I know WHAT equipment to buy but just don't know how to set it up and use it well. So I snatch it up when I see it usually. But that is for another thread... Mids and highs are "decent" now... They need alot of attention though //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif b

Huh... i see you've got a CD8454; i found the crossover settings very easy to use on that deck. You have any questions about what the options mean or how to change them? I'm happy to answer them (still got the deck & manual too). A 12db/octave x-over @ 80hz is about perfect for my 12W6v1 in a sealed 1.2cf box also...i've tried other settings but wasn't happy with them. The 12w6v1 in a sealed box doesn' get as 'thunderous' as my other 10' ported setups i've used...but it does get the job done. I give mine a slight boost @ 40hz to make up for the 'thin' sounding low-end. I think a 12w6v1 in a ported setup would be quite impressive.

A single 12" or a multiple 12" ported? I will try 80htz at 12db slope, mine is 80htz pass atm. I have the manual but it is lost somewhere in my workshop, will have to go fishing. I think one 10" ported low would be more than enough bass to fill the truck... Too bad I sold my 10w3v1.

Rockin' the hot glue? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eyebrow.gif.fe2c18d8720fe8c7eaed347b21ea05a5.gif lol
You just expected too much, nothing more to it.BTW: The drummer's bass drum is not supposed to be behind you //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

How do you achieve the effect that it comes from the front then?

And yes, I am rocking hot glue. It works pretty well for sticking pretty much anything to the dashboard...

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

There are several factors that come into play when getting the bass to stage from the front. The first is a proper front stage with solid midbass. This allows you to cross the sub(s) low and not lose any information. The actual staging cues for the kick drum come from the sound of the hammer impact which is out of the range of what the subs should be playing. That sound is in the upper midbass range and should be reproduced by the front stage. Once you have a front stage capable of properly producing the majority of the frequency spectrum, you have to set your crossovers to allow it to do so. That also involves setting the sub crossover low enough that it won't interfere with the front stage doing its job.

 

[headless 10+ year member]

You're lucky re: the hot glue...in fla, that would melt on a hot day in summer NO problem...re-liquify, yuck. If you had your crossover set to 80hz/PASS, you have been running your setup without any crossover at all on your 12's which would have them as full range. You need to cross them over or they'll be playing the entire freq range...which is not the purpose of a subwoofer!

 

[LoudCrownVic 5,000+ posts]

You're lucky re: the hot glue...in fla, that would melt on a hot day in summer NO problem...re-liquify, yuck. If you had your crossover set to 80hz/PASS, you have been running your setup without any crossover at all on your 12's which would have them as full range. You need to cross them over or they'll be playing the entire freq range...which is not the purpose of a subwoofer!

Amp has a xover in it. I have it set (as of dinking with it last night) way too high. It is a variable type xover. I will take that xover off (via the fullrange switch) and turn on the 80/12db slope to see where that takes me. Thanks for your help headless!

Thanks helotaxi, that info wll help me alot with clarifying waht I have to do to make it sound good. Such an effect has been achieved with this system but there is very little midbass to work with. I imagine with a better foundation of strong midbass (by modifing my current power and install on my current ones mated with soime better tweeters) that the percieved quality of the sub bass will be much better. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

You're lucky re: the hot glue...in fla, that would melt on a hot day in summer NO problem...re-liquify, yuck.

Used to use it all the time as a kid and never had a problem. Just gotta use the high temp stuff instead of the low temp. Use it a bit now and then now. Originally from FL and now live in Las Vegas. FL heat ain't got nothing on the desert.

 

[LoudCrownVic 5,000+ posts]

I don't know if this helps but the PPI QBASS function on my amplifier was "set and forgotten" a tweak on that, accompanied with the pressing of the QBASS button, and VIOLA! We have improved low end. But, no more time to play with it tonight, though I think I found most of the problem.

Vaguely remember that the Qbass function allows for a triple bass boost or something if set properly...

Lesson... The manual that comes with audio equipment is VERY important.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

QBass is a variable Q subsonic filter. Won't keep the amp from clipping but it will give you a heavy boost while protecting the sub from overexcursion. Most effective with ported boxes.