Jl At Crutchfeild

[IgnoreMe 5,000+ posts]

If you compare that with what JL does, take the 2 ohm load and spread it across the board. The 1000/1 will give you 100 watts..at 2 ohms.....4 ohms...1 ohms....8 ohms....9,3758 ohms.... 11 volts, 12.5 volts, 14 volts, whatever.

at the cost of efficiency.

id rather match my system to what i need and have a more efficient amplifer

 

[JayRich 10+ year member]

No kidding. All respect to Scott, but the W7 is a better driver in my eyes than a Q, and the price reflects that.

Agreed, but would you say that its that much better to warrant a cost double that or close to double of the Q? JL carries great products, but what most people see is the cost to return(Quality) ratio for that product

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

LMMFAO...............WTF? do you call the other 99% of subwoofers out there if a W7 is an old design. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

I never cease to be amazed. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

I think by that he means they haven't redesigned the sub. I mean, the RE XXX has been redesigned at least 3 times in the same time the W7 has stayed exactly the same. Same with the Stereo Integrity Magnum, DD, and most other brands. I know I would take a Mag over the W7 any day of the week.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Agreed, but would you say that its that much better to warrant a cost double that or close to double of the Q? JL carries great products, but what most people see is the cost to return(Quality) ratio for that product

If we play the value game, you just end up with cheaper and cheaper drivers. Honestly, this whole attitude is driving car audio into the toilet. Companies have to take smaller and smaller margins...and at a certain point, you end up having to sacrifice quality and integrity of the parts to stay competitive.

The Q is a great driver and, sure, if we're comparing a certain level of output for the price paid, it's a better value than the W7. But look at the parts used. The W7 is a whole other world in many respects.

I can put any TV in my house and watch television just fine, but sometimes you just want that 60" LCD HD flatscreen, whether there's really that much of a difference in viewing pleasure or not.

I think by that he means they haven't redesigned the sub. I mean, the RE XXX has been redesigned at least 3 times in the same time the W7 has stayed exactly the same. Same with the Stereo Integrity Magnum, DD, and most other brands. I know I would take a Mag over the W7 any day of the week.

That's because the W7 doesn't need to be re-designed. The W7 is what, 5 or 6 years old now and it is still one of the best engineered and best selling subwoofers on the market.

Just as food for thought, there are some things companies still haven't caught on to that the W7 has had for years and are very popular or intelligent (in an engineering sense).

1. The oversized poly dust cap. Easily one of the most attractive cone/dustcap combinations that I can remember and companies still copy it routinely, right down to the location and size of the logo at the bottom.

2. BL linearity - There are lots of approaches to achieving this but there are zero straight overhung drivers I know of with a BL plateau like the W7 has...long and flat.

3. The elevated frame - It wasn't until 2003 that Dr. Klippel published his paper on non-linear modelling of heat transfer and really opened some eyes, indicating that a pole vent does very little, whereas drawing cool air across the top plate and down into the voice coil windings is much more effective. Still, the W7 (which came well before that paper) uses an elevated frame that does just that. There are tons of companies that still don't really get that whole concept.

I could go on and on about how the W7 really helped push the car audio world forward (just my opinion of course). Now everyone just wants things cheaper. "Good enough" seems to be the mantra everyone is practicing. It blows my mind that people take time out of their day to come on the internet and talk shit about such an outstanding driver.

 

[Hintzyboy 5,000+ posts]

I don't think anyone is saying that th W7 is a bad driver. But can you honestly say it's worth the price? I mean you would think that the price of production would go down over the years that the W7 has been out and that this drop would be reflected in the sale price. But the W7 continues to be one of the most expensive woofers out there. I can't honestly say I believe that the W7 is $300-$400 better than say a Stereo Integrity Mag in SQ, ouput, or build quality.

The W7 was an amazing piece of engineering. But now, many companies have caught up with JL. A LOT of woofers out there are employing new cooling techniques (Fi cooling packages, DD cooling chambers in the motor, several companies picking basket designs with cooling in mind). I just don't see that the W7 has enough to offer to justify the MSRP.

 

[Pyro_By_Nature 5,000+ posts]

Jl's hype will only last so long....The W7 woofer is an old design thats been out done by many mfg's and at half the price (FIQ for example)

Perfect example of an FI nuthugger, talking out of his ***. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

I don't think anyone is saying that th W7 is a bad driver. But can you honestly say it's worth the price? I mean you would think that the price of production would go down over the years that the W7 has been out and that this drop would be reflected in the sale price. But the W7 continues to be one of the most expensive woofers out there. I can't honestly say I believe that the W7 is $300-$400 better than say a Stereo Integrity Mag in SQ, ouput, or build quality.

Why would the price go down? The cost of materials has only gone up.

The W7 was an amazing piece of engineering. But now, many companies have caught up with JL. A LOT of woofers out there are employing new cooling techniques (Fi cooling packages, DD cooling chambers in the motor, several companies picking basket designs with cooling in mind). I just don't see that the W7 has enough to offer to justify the MSRP.

I don't think any company has caught up with JL in terms of engineering. They do one or two similar things cheaper...that's about it.

 

[BringDaBoom 10+ year member]

If we play the value game, you just end up with cheaper and cheaper drivers. Honestly, this whole attitude is driving car audio into the toilet. Companies have to take smaller and smaller margins...and at a certain point, you end up having to sacrifice quality and integrity of the parts to stay competitive.
The Q is a great driver and, sure, if we're comparing a certain level of output for the price paid, it's a better value than the W7. But look at the parts used. The W7 is a whole other world in many respects.

I can put any TV in my house and watch television just fine, but sometimes you just want that 60" LCD HD flatscreen, whether there's really that much of a difference in viewing pleasure or not.

That's because the W7 doesn't need to be re-designed. The W7 is what, 5 or 6 years old now and it is still one of the best engineered and best selling subwoofers on the market.

Just as food for thought, there are some things companies still haven't caught on to that the W7 has had for years and are very popular or intelligent (in an engineering sense).

1. The oversized poly dust cap. Easily one of the most attractive cone/dustcap combinations that I can remember and companies still copy it routinely, right down to the location and size of the logo at the bottom.

2. BL linearity - There are lots of approaches to achieving this but there are zero straight overhung drivers I know of with a BL plateau like the W7 has...long and flat.

3. The elevated frame - It wasn't until 2003 that Dr. Klippel published his paper on non-linear modelling of heat transfer and really opened some eyes, indicating that a pole vent does very little, whereas drawing cool air across the top plate and down into the voice coil windings is much more effective. Still, the W7 (which came well before that paper) uses an elevated frame that does just that. There are tons of companies that still don't really get that whole concept.

I could go on and on about how the W7 really helped push the car audio world forward (just my opinion of course). Now everyone just wants things cheaper. "Good enough" seems to be the mantra everyone is practicing. It blows my mind that people take time out of their day to come on the internet and talk shit about such an outstanding driver.

Phenominal post. You only forgot to mention how they (JL) has been steadily feeding W7-isms down to the rest of their drivers and speakers.

 

[Hintzyboy 5,000+ posts]

Why would the price go down? The cost of materials has only gone up.


I don't think any company has caught up with JL in terms of engineering. They do one or two similar things cheaper...that's about it.

Materials, sure, but usually, a product costs more to produce in the beginning (what with new tooling, etc.). If the W7 was such a new, innoviative design, JL would incur some big initial production costs. At least i would think. This would justify a big price tag in the beginning, but one would think the price would go down SOME over the time the W7 has been out

 

[JayRich 10+ year member]

If we play the value game, you just end up with cheaper and cheaper drivers. Honestly, this whole attitude is driving car audio into the toilet. Companies have to take smaller and smaller margins...and at a certain point, you end up having to sacrifice quality and integrity of the parts to stay competitive.
The Q is a great driver and, sure, if we're comparing a certain level of output for the price paid, it's a better value than the W7. But look at the parts used. The W7 is a whole other world in many respects.

I can put any TV in my house and watch television just fine, but sometimes you just want that 60" LCD HD flatscreen, whether there's really that much of a difference in viewing pleasure or not.

That's because the W7 doesn't need to be re-designed. The W7 is what, 5 or 6 years old now and it is still one of the best engineered and best selling subwoofers on the market.

Just as food for thought, there are some things companies still haven't caught on to that the W7 has had for years and are very popular or intelligent (in an engineering sense).

1. The oversized poly dust cap. Easily one of the most attractive cone/dustcap combinations that I can remember and companies still copy it routinely, right down to the location and size of the logo at the bottom.

2. BL linearity - There are lots of approaches to achieving this but there are zero straight overhung drivers I know of with a BL plateau like the W7 has...long and flat.

3. The elevated frame - It wasn't until 2003 that Dr. Klippel published his paper on non-linear modelling of heat transfer and really opened some eyes, indicating that a pole vent does very little, whereas drawing cool air across the top plate and down into the voice coil windings is much more effective. Still, the W7 (which came well before that paper) uses an elevated frame that does just that. There are tons of companies that still don't really get that whole concept.

I could go on and on about how the W7 really helped push the car audio world forward (just my opinion of course). Now everyone just wants things cheaper. "Good enough" seems to be the mantra everyone is practicing. It blows my mind that people take time out of their day to come on the internet and talk shit about such an outstanding driver.

Agreed fully, the only thing is, as in retail, not everyone is looking to spend 1000's of dollars on a 60 inch T.V. but on if there is a great deal on a 50 inch, doesent have all the bells and whistles so to speak, but has great picture quality and suits there needs most will go with the less expensive one, and will still be offered Quality. Thats all im saying. Well put though. Honestly alot of people wouldn't mind paying that much, considering how much high end home audio equipment costs. If there wasn't a maket, they wouldn't be in business

 

[JayRich 10+ year member]

I tell you one thing if i had the money i'd get the Gotham g213 in a heart beat

 

[JayRich 10+ year member]

http://www.audiojunkies.com/blog/199/jl-audio-facility-tour-pictures

 

[Pyro_By_Nature 5,000+ posts]

Materials, sure, but usually, a product costs more to produce in the beginning (what with new tooling, etc.). If the W7 was such a new, innoviative design, JL would incur some big initial production costs. At least i would think. This would justify a big price tag in the beginning, but one would think the price would go down SOME over the time the W7 has been out

How can the price go down, if the cost in materials goes up? What is so hard to grasp about that?

How many flagship subs do you know of that have reduced in MSRP since they were released? This is a serious question. The closest thing I can remember is when RE was closing out the HC's for $300/pr.