It's war time...

[LWW 10+ year member]

Don't forget that Mohammed Atta, head 9/11 thug, met with one of Iraq's top people in Bulgaria then came to the US. Atta's landlord in Florida owned the publishing company where anthrax first appeared. Atta's roommate and fellow homicidal maniac sought treatment for what appeared to be subcutaneous anthrax shortly before the 9/11 incident. He in fact had the medicine ciprofloxacin on his corpse.

Also don't forget that Atta among other 9/11 punks used an airline simulator in Iraq for hijack "training" sessions. Also don't forget that the first WTC bombers in 1993 were travelling on Iraqi passports and were also Al Qaeda associates.

For a final thought Timothy McVeigh had a list of Baghdad phone numbers in his possession.

Of course they could have all just met at Saddam's house for a bridge game so where's the proof?

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Sun Tzu in "the Art of War".

PEACE

 

[joshpoints 10+ year member]

Originally posted by LWW Don't forget that Mohammed Atta, head 9/11 thug, met with one of Iraq's top people in Bulgaria then came to the US. Atta's landlord in Florida owned the publishing company where anthrax first appeared. Atta's roommate and fellow homicidal maniac sought treatment for what appeared to be subcutaneous anthrax shortly before the 9/11 incident. He in fact had the medicine ciprofloxacin on his corpse.

 

Also don't forget that Atta among other 9/11 punks used an airline simulator in Iraq for hijack "training" sessions. Also don't forget that the first WTC bombers in 1993 were travelling on Iraqi passports and were also Al Qaeda associates.

 

For a final thought Timothy McVeigh had a list of Baghdad phone numbers in his possession.

 

Of course they could have all just met at Saddam's house for a bridge game so where's the proof?

 

 

 

PEACE

I'm impressed LWW. Where do you find all of your info. You know some things that I didn't know about. Remeber they may have had training in Iraq, but this doesn't mean that he was for their acts, or told them that they must do it, so there must not be a connection. lol.

 

[joshpoints 10+ year member]

What's funny is all of these statements that we post will be ignored and someone will go ahead and say that we shouldn't be in Iraq right now. I personally have decided that going in with military force is the best way. Taking out Sadam isn't the only thing that must be done. Sadam's military must also be eliminated so that his sons or other inhumane dictators do not take power. Here's something else that is interesting. My political science book and my teacher both state that schools are trying to get students to become liberals. This is like brainwashing the students by telling them one side of the story. At least it is finally being admitted that the school system has a liberal biased.

 

[LWW 10+ year member]

What's funny is all of these statements that we post will be ignored and someone will go ahead and say that we shouldn't be in Iraq right now.

This reminds me of a bit of scripture:

Paraphrased:"Pity not the blind who cannot see nor the deaf who cannot hear nor the dumb who cannot speak. Pity the sighted who cannot see truth, pity those with ears yet cannot hear truth, pity those with tongues who cannot speak truth."

-Jesus Christ-

PEACE

 

[joshpoints 10+ year member]

Originally posted by LWW This reminds me of a bit of scripture:

 

 

 

PEACE

Paraphrased:

"Pity not the blind who cannot see nor the deaf who cannot hear nor the dumb who cannot speak. Pity the sighted who cannot see truth, pity those with ears yet cannot hear truth, pity those with tongues who cannot speak truth."

-Jesus Christ-

Hey. Remeber separation church and a public forum. How dare you speak such terrible words. You evil man. Religion is going to destroy this country. I don't understand how the teaching of treating people good and fairly could destroy a country.

 

[LWW 10+ year member]

Sadly much of the junk that happens in our society happens because people do not understand the constitution and it's enduring greatness.

PEACE

"Freedom of speech gives you the right to yell theater in a crowded fire!"-Woody Allen-

(I think )

 

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

Well, you can only take the first amendment so far...

 

[LWW 10+ year member]

Absolutely. To the point that another's rights are impinged upon or real harm is called. This is something some people miss. Notice I didn't say you had the right to yell fire ina crowded theater.

A local atty with a radio "free legal advice" show a few years back caused quite a stir when the flag burning issue was big. People had been cited for illegaly burning leaves so as a protest of the stupidity of both laws he arranged the leaves into a reasonable flag replica and then burnt the flag (legal) which by definition burnt the leaves (illegal). He won his case and the ordinance was changed.

PEACE

 

[LWW 10+ year member]

I'm impressed LWW. Where do you find all of your info.

I use many news sources. CNN, Fox News, internet sites such as the Drubge report, newspaper, magazines such as Time and Newsweek. I am an avid reader. I also am fortuneate enough to be in the same city with the USAF's largest base and the USAF Foreign Technology Division.

Some of the things you can learn from cultivating a link of reliable sources are truly amazing.

In any event I am admittedly human and a work in progress but I make a hard effort to start researching every issue with no foregone conclusions and follow the facts to wherever they lead...and at the end of the trail truth will always be found.

We have all witnessed those who go into an issue with their mind made up and closed. They will accept ANY type of tripe that supports their mindset without question no matter how easily it disintegrates upon close inspection WHILE AT THE SAME TIME coming up with the most ludicrous reasons to disbelieve what can be shown to be cast in stone fact.

Keep your wits about you Joshpoints and your mind open to reality and you will do well in this world.

Ultimately a lie is a lie and cannot be made into reality and a truth is a truth and can never be made to go away.

PEACE

 

[joshpoints 10+ year member]

Originally posted by LWW Sadly much of the junk that happens in our society happens because people do not understand the constitution and it's enduring greatness.

 

PEACE

I think that people bend the constitution to fit whatever their personal needs are. It's like people that say servants are mentioned in the bible so the slavery that we had in the past is okay.

 

[LWW 10+ year member]

I think that people bend the constitution to fit whatever their personal needs are.

This has been witnessed on this forum. Some people just regurgitate the same pap thet's been told to them by someone else simply because it fits their agenda and when the truth comes out they have NEVER bothered to actually READ what the document says.

If you ever want to see how bastardized the founding fathers ideals, as set forth in the US Constitution, have become read the Federalist Papers.

These are a combination of the writings of many of the signers pertaining to their thoughts on what each section actually MEANT. My favorite is the supposed constitutional 4th ammendment right to abortion for any reason and paid for by the taxpayer.

Article IVThe right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue , but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

-The 4th Ammendment to the United States Constitution in it's entirety-

PEACE

 

[joshpoints 10+ year member]

An example of this is abortion. SOme believe that the constitution protects abortion because we have the right to do whatever we want to our body.

Prostitutes have used this same line to try and legalize ************.

 

[LWW 10+ year member]

You can make a much better legal AND moral argument for ************ being legal tha abortion on demand.

But then again most Americans never even bother to read the constitution. Remember the learned one Savant was babbling here once about how freedom of religion gave him the right to ban any public official from exercising their own freedom of religion. Sadly way too many people on the left do exactly what they accuse those on the right of doing by telling everyone the have the right to do what they want as long as it passes there "political coorectness" litmus test.

OTOH most conservatives are in reality doing what liberals CLAIM to be doing by saying everyone has the right to do what they want UNTIL it interferes with another's rights.

George Orwell's 1984 "doublespeak" was quite prophetic in that light.

To steer it back to the war topic I keep wondering that if the left's indignation about this war isn't motivated by politics then where were they when Billy Jeff and AlBore were leading us in Haiti to REINSTALL a brutal regime which had been overthrown by popular revolt? Why didn't we HAVE to get UN approval to go into Bosnia? And don't forget that we gave Milosevic BETTER terms after bombing him than he would have accepted prior to it! In effect we bombed him until we surrendered.

Historicly if we look back at recent history and American conflicts:

Gulf War round II: Apparently quick with minimal loss of life. Conservative Bush II at the helm.

Afghanistan: Over quick and a Democracy put in place of a state of 11th century brand tyranny. Conservative Dubya lays the smack down.

Bosnia: What was even up there besides getting something besides a scandal into the news? Much money spent. Milosevic left in power. American occupation...ooops I mean peacekeepers...years later. Liberal Willie Jeff Clinton leading us.

Haiti. Unpopular and formerly ousted govt reinstalled. American peacekeepers still ther 10 years later. Liberal Bubba's warm up.

Gulf War round I. Swift destruction of enemy forces followed by being dissuaded from finishing the job. Moderate Bush I.

Panama. Swift and final. Moderate Bush I's warmup.

Libya: Over in a day. Conserative Ronnie.

Grenada. Over and forgotten quicker than one of the Great Commicator's B movies.

Iran. Possibly the worst debacle in American history. Began under Liberal Carter and ended the day Conservative Reagan took the reigns of power.

Viet Nam. 10+ years of death and destruction and a near Civil War. Again began under Liberal Kennedy expanded under Liberal LBJ and ended under Conservative Tricky Dick Nixon.

Korea. Communist aggression repelled but ending in a cease fire, which by the way WE think that war ended long ago but N Korea doesn't...where else did we have that problem recently, oh yeah Iraq. US armed forces still keeping the 2 sides apart 50 years later. Moderate Give Em Hell Harry Truman.

WWII. Eventually won by the good guys but totally avoidable had Euopean Liberals not taken the "appeasement" approach. America only joins the effort after a sneak attack following years of burying our head in the sand hoping the problems would go away. Similar to Clinton ignoring the rise of Bin Laden and Al Qaeda. The grandpappy of modern Liberalism in America FDR running the show.

WWI. The pacifist Woodrow Wilson ignoring world events until the German's sank the Lusitania killing many American tourists. A lesson which we forgot going into WWI.

The pattern here seems to be that Liberal pacifism always leads to the mess which Conservatives are left to straighten out.

Gulf War rounds I and II, Afghanistan, Panama, Libya, and Grenada show what is actually the proper and humane way to fight a war when it becomes needed and that is to lay such a devasting pimp slap up the side of the enemies head that the hostilities end. The alternative is a slow bleed on bothe sides like Viet Nam, WWI, WWII, and Korea.

War is never a good thing but the only way to do it right is end it quick.

PEACE

 

[CarAudioAddict 10+ year member]

I've said it before and I'll say it again

"War may sometimes be the only choice, but is never the right choice"

In case you hadn't realized, I won't argue against the war anymore. I stand firmly beside my point, but see no sense in arguing against something I cannot change (plus, I have seen lots of proof that Saddam should be removed from power, but nothing that warrants starting a war).

And yes, I agree that pure liberals do have a habit of screwing things up (look at what has happened in Canada over the past 8 years with liberals in charge. Mind you the Progressive Conservative's didn't do much good either).

In general, I am against governments. I have yet to see or hear of a govt that has represented the sole interest of the country and its people (which happens to be what a govt. is for). If a decision involves the people, taxes, or the country, it should be voted upon, not decided by someone sitting at a desk with no clue as to how things are on the outside.

BTW - LWW - I do respect the fact that you can stand by your point, even when the odds are against you (as they were at the beginning of this thread). Stand by your point, and only change when every shred of evidence has been torn apart (which we have been unable to do, although most of it has gone out the window on both sides) Congrats man.

And no that is not a concession speach.

 

[joshpoints 10+ year member]

Originally posted by CarAudioAddict I've said it before and I'll say it again

 

"War may sometimes be the only choice, but is never the right choice"

 

In case you hadn't realized, I won't argue against the war anymore. I stand firmly beside my point, but see no sense in arguing against something I cannot change (plus, I have seen lots of proof that Saddam should be removed from power, but nothing that warrants starting a war).

 

And yes, I agree that pure liberals do have a habit of screwing things up (look at what has happened in Canada over the past 8 years with liberals in charge. Mind you the Progressive Conservative's didn't do much good either).

 

In general, I am against governments. I have yet to see or hear of a govt that has represented the sole interest of the country and its people (which happens to be what a govt. is for). If a decision involves the people, taxes, or the country, it should be voted upon, not decided by someone sitting at a desk with no clue as to how things are on the outside.

 

BTW - LWW - I do respect the fact that you can stand by your point, even when the odds are against you (as they were at the beginning of this thread). Stand by your point, and only change when every shred of evidence has been torn apart (which we have been unable to do, although most of it has gone out the window on both sides) Congrats man.

 

And no that is not a concession speach.

Wow I'm impressed with you caraudioaddict. I will admit that extreme political groups tend to be dangeroous. I also believe that the political system is corrupted by money. People pay off politicians with the hope that the politician will do what fits their interest, rather than what's best for the country. THis is exactly what's going on in Iraq right now. France has agreements with Iraqi oil. This war will cost the French money. Most of what action is taken tends to be based on money. There are examples of this in U.S. political campaigns as well, which have been mentioned earlier in this thread.