It's war time...

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

Originally posted by LWW Without looking I am curious as to whether they show Saddamite Hussinsein's INTENTIONAL atrocities over the years?

 

PEACE

You mean him graciously killing thousands of his own people?

 

[LWW 10+ year member]

You mean him graciously killing thousands of his own people?

He didn't even charge them for the gas. He doesn't even send a bill for the bullet to the family like the Chinese communists do.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nono.gif.eca61d170185779e0921b0faa9704973.gif :nono: //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nono.gif.eca61d170185779e0921b0faa9704973.gif :nono:

To those of you old enough to remember President Reagan and the zero option offer to the now extinct USSR the arguments from the left are the same as then and just as hollow. The President was called a cowboy and a war monger who only wanted the North Sea and west Russian oil fields and was going to start WWIII. Luckily the majority of people supported his policies and the Cold War was won withoutn ever going hot. We had the chance under the Clintonistas to solve this and Bin Laden without war...but we would have made some people mad who wouldn't have voted for big bubba again.

Leadership is not gamesmanship. Diplomacy is not politics.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nono.gif.eca61d170185779e0921b0faa9704973.gif :nono: //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nono.gif.eca61d170185779e0921b0faa9704973.gif :nono:

PEACE

 

[Natheo 10+ year member]

your really into this stuff arent you.

 

[LWW 10+ year member]

It's my country so yes I'm into it. I try to learn as much as I can. I get painted as a conservative, and on some things I am such as national defense, foreign policy, taxation. On others I'm very liberal such as personal freedom of speech and religion.

The AMAZING thing is that those who want to limit freedom of religion rights, 2nd ammendment rights, personal property rights, free speech rights and such hand out a few buck$ to the uneducated in exchange for votes and call themselves liberal.

In this I am speaking of politicians and especially those at the national level. Most liberal individuals I have met are well intentioned people. Those who take the time to research issues will usually admit to the bull from the natl Democratic party.

They have brought us the check kiting scam on the House bank, Abscam, WHitewater and all the associated Arkansas Mountain Mafia scandals, misslegate. Don't forget that Enron HAPPENED while the Clintonistas were in power. In fact they were using the same accounting paractices that the administration was using to show a phony surplus. Under Dubya the Enron criminals were turned down flat when they came begging for cover. They were investigated and now being prosecuted. The surplus is gone because the books are honest...it was never there in other words.

Don't forget that Bubba refused to accept Bin Laden 3 times, bailed N Korea out when they were about to topple which ended up with them being able to make nukes, sold missile trechnology to the Chinese, signed legislation which forever banned CLEAN BURNING coal from being mined in the US leaving the Riady family of Indonesia with the market cornered...in exchange for campaign money, sold a pardon to the FBI's most wanted fugitive along with several drug dealers, among many other crimes which the liberal left ran cover for.

The truly amazing thing is that in 1993 on bubba's 1st day in office the Dems controlled the White House, both houses of Congress, amajority of the state's governors, and a majority of the state's congresses. They lostt ALL of it except the presidency during the Clinton years and then lost it when Al Bore ran yet THEY STILL BACK THE GUY.

The funny thing is bubba promised us the most ethical administration in history.

If most Americans would take the time to learn what really goes on all of this could be avoided from being repeated.

PEACE

 

[joshpoints 10+ year member]

Originally posted by LWW Cold in winter hot in summer but seldom below 20 or above 90. Avg rain. Lower home prices compared to your area....by about 95% in your analogy.

 

Decent job mkt and reasonable living costs. Lots of farm land but somm bigger cities also. 1 NHL, 2 NFL, 1 NBA, and 2 MLB teams.

 

PEACE

Is it really rare to make 50k a year? The problem in Ca. is that most people make around 50k or less. The houses cost too much to pay for, unless you buy a 2 bed 1 bath house that is around 1k square feet. Can you buy a nice size house with your income there?

 

[joshpoints 10+ year member]

Dang LWW. You think the same way I do. I remembered hearing about Clinton pardoning convicted terrorists. Did you see that video documentary that was made about Clinton prior to him going into office, I think this may have been the mafia thing. Please enlighten if you heard anything about this. I was pretty young when I saw it so I don't remember what it was exactly about. It was probably made 6-7 years ago. He threatened and even had people beat up so that they wouldn't talk about some illegal stuff that he was involved in inside Arkansas. I'll have to ask my Dad if he remembers the name of the tape. As I have said before the liberal ideology would be the best ideology in a perfect world. So LWW, have you read or heard of that book, "The Savage Nation"? It's a best seller and has not been promoted by anyone, but the author Michael Savage. You know what they say about liberal arguments in the past, they will repeat themselves, just like history if it is not known.

 

[1zenlunatic 10+ year member]

HMM not the best scholars and to be fair, i'll rip on the extreme liberal and extreme conservatives

since they're both arrogant and off the deep end!

EXTREME LIBERAL: A.N.S.W.E.R. , KPFA pundits and John Judge, Micheal Moore

EXTREME CONSERVATIVE: Rush Limbaugh and Micheal Savage

ALL are arrogant loud and think they have Gods gift of omniscience on their side.

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

Neat article.. kind of what I'm getting at when I talk about how the US can't really be acting in a truely 'humanitarian' motive for foreign countries when it's not concerened with it's own people..

Social Activism For Iraq

"We have an obligation . . . to put food and medicine in places so the Iraqi people can live a normal life," President Bush told the nation last week.

That's great. I just hope the Iraqis can get the medicine without having to join an HMO.

In his appropriation request to Congress, Bush asked for several billion dollars in humanitarian aid for what is now war-torn Iraq. The requests for future appropriations to rebuild Iraq when the shooting war is done have yet to come. Surely these are requests that Congress must honor: When we tear up a place, we have an obligation at absolute minimum to put it back in order.

And yet, this is an administration that is singularly ill-suited to the rebuilding of Iraq, because it is so stunningly indifferent to the rebuilding -- or even the maintenance -- of the United States. The administration has all but acknowledged that it has failed to rebuild Afghanistan, but it insists that Iraq will be different.

I doubt it. Except in matters of national security, this is the most resolutely anti-government administration since the rise of the New Deal. Ronald Reagan's pales alongside it. It has already enacted a $1 trillion-plus tax cut and now proposes to do it again, in wartime. If the president's advisers truly believe such a cut stimulates the economy (the first cut stimulated a net loss of roughly 2 million jobs), this is even more of a faith-based administration than it has let on. In fact, the chief goal of these cuts is to reduce government's capacity to meet public needs.

And that's just the beginning. The administration still would like to privatize Social Security, and it is promoting a Medicare "reform" that would force seniors into private HMOs in order to receive adequate prescription drug coverage. It has been utterly indifferent to the plight of state governments, which are everywhere cutting back on medical care, raising average school class sizes and increasing taxes to cope with the worst budgetary crisis in 60 years.

Yet at the same time that it is rolling back public services here in the United States, the White House means to roll them out in Iraq. It won't work. On this question, the Bush administration is a house divided against itself. It cannot be the social activist abroad and the social Darwinist at home. The American public will not long support the securing of a postwar Iraq while medicine, education and other social goods are increasingly rationed by the dollar in the States.

Indeed, it was only when this nation was at its most generous at home that it could afford to be at its most generous -- and strategically smart -- abroad. The Marshall Plan, which rebuilt the economies of Western Europe in the years after World War II, marked a commitment of U.S. resources that this nation never approached at any other time in its history. In the plan's first year, 1948-49, the United States devoted $5.3 billion to European reconstruction -- in a total budget of just $36 billion. That amounted to more than 2 percent of our gross national product. Today, our total foreign aid amounts to 0.1 percent of our gross domestic product.

How could the American people have committed so much of their wealth to the reconstruction of foreign lands? Anti-communism explained part of that commitment, but far from all of it. The truth is that Americans in the Roosevelt-Truman era were accustomed to, and supportive of, massive government efforts to promote the general welfare. From 1935 to 1941, for instance, Roosevelt's Works Progress Administration had employed 8 million Americans -- as many as 3.3 million at one time -- in public jobs. That came to 7 percent of the entire workforce. During World War II, the scope and legitimacy of government endeavor reached an all-time high.

Once upon a time, the neoconservative authors of the current war understood this link. Today it's these neos -- from Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz to Weekly Standard Editor William Kristol -- who are most committed to a years-long project of rebuilding Iraq. Many of them got their start in politics three decades ago, working for Sen. Henry "Scoop" Jackson, a Washington state Democrat who was a hard-line Cold War hawk and an avid supporter of such New Deal-type programs as universal health insurance. In the intervening decades, however, most of Jackson's onetime acolytes have repudiated the domestic half of his agenda. In 1993 Kristol wrote a famous memo urging the Republicans not to compromise with Bill Clinton on his universal health insurance plan but rather to kill it outright lest it breed a new generation of Americans who counted on the government for their well-being. The same Bill Kristol, of course, has been possibly the single most influential war hawk on Iraq and now counsels a commitment to the long-term reconstruction of that nation.

Scoop Jackson would have told him that you can't distribute medicine in Basra while making it unaffordable in Baltimore. Only a nation that feels secure at home will string a safety net abroad, which is why the economics of the Bush administration spell a grim future for both America and Iraq.

Harold Meyerson is editor at large of the American Prospect.

© 2003 The Washington Post Company

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55393-2003Mar30.html

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

http://www.bushwatch.com/

 

[joshpoints 10+ year member]

Originally posted by 1zenlunatic HMM not the best scholars and to be fair, i'll rip on the extreme liberal and extreme conservatives

since they're both arrogant and off the deep end!

 

 

 

EXTREME LIBERAL: A.N.S.W.E.R. , KPFA pundits and John Judge, Micheal Moore

 

 

EXTREME CONSERVATIVE: Rush Limbaugh and Micheal Savage

 

 

 

ALL are arrogant loud and think they have Gods gift of omniscience on their side.

Hmmm. Your wrong. An extreme conservative is someone that believes women belong in the kitchen and that not all people are equal. An extreme conservative would say that the labor laws should be removed. A extreme conservative would believe that immigration should be stopped in order to keep jobs for those in the country. Michael Savage believes in none of the above.

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

Lots to read, but probably worth your time if you want some info about how this war was 'spun up'.. and other such info..

http://www.bushwatch.com/iraqevidence.htm

 

[joshpoints 10+ year member]

I have my opinions on social security. Yes it does good things, but when the funds are being used for things besides social security it upsets me. I wish that I could stop paying social security and save up for my own plan. Unfortunately I guess most americans aren't as responsible as I am, because there would be little need for it if people saved up on their own. Afghanistan; A country isn't built over night. THey must first create a products that the rest of the world wants. THey must industrialize to exist. I'd say giving the people some freedom in Afghanistan is a good start to a better life and will allow all minds to brainstorm and create products for the worldwide industry.

If you put Michael Savage against any liberal on this planet, I guarantee that he will rip them apart. The truth can not be broken by any. He will just make their arguments look foolish.

 

[DarkHemprey 10+ year member]

war war wtf is this forum about agaigin?

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

Originally posted by joshpoints I have my opinions on social security. Yes it does good things, but when the funds are being used for things besides social security it upsets me. I wish that I could stop paying social security and save up for my own plan. Unfortunately I guess most americans aren't as responsible as I am, because there would be little need for it if people saved up on their own.

Then there is the other side where a significant portion of the population doesn't make enough to 'plan' because they live paycheck to paycheck for 18 years at a company, then get laid off with no retirement due to 'downsizing'.. been happening a LOT lately.. Not to mention, MOST 'planning' is based on the stock market, which is just smoke and mirrors, as shown by the millions of people that lost almost all their retirement when Enron and a few other 'big dogs' had to come clean.. Working at $8/hr isn't enough to survive let alone plan for ~15 years of not working in your old age.. Granted, it would be nice if we didn't have to have social security, but our economic model has adapted to presume that money will be there to support our old folks.... Not to mention, we don't have enough jobs for the current market; How do we add in 10s of thousands of 'workable' seniors into the mix? This is the RICHEST country in the world (other than the Vatican City, go figure) and we can't let our old people rest after 25 - 30 years of contributing? Know why? the richest 2% OWN well over 75% of all resources.. which means there isn't enough for all of the rest of us to have.. which also means when we can't work anymore, we have no money.. Planning is relavant, and when a $250,000 pension plan can drop to $5,000 overnight, that's not a good way to convince the public that planning will save them..

Afghanistan; A country isn't built over night. THey must first create a products that the rest of the world wants. THey must industrialize to exist. I'd say giving the people some freedom in Afghanistan is a good start to a better life and will allow all minds to brainstorm and create products for the worldwide industry.

You can only create so many things from sand.. Iraq has oil, but not much else.. They can produce 'some' things I'm sure, but in general, they live in a desert, what can they do? We can open factories there and have super cheap labor and ship in resources, but that WILL take away from American jobs.. great, just what we need, more Americans with no job..

The same point came up during the Vietnam conflict.. "we are there to give them a democracy and a capitolistic economy instead of a communism", only, you can only give so much rice to the world.. Vietnam didn't (doesn't) have the people or resources to be 'like America', yet that was part of the lie handed to the American People so Lady Bird Johnson could keep making millions of dollars on munitions sales to the military..

If you put Michael Savage against any liberal on this planet, I guarantee that he will rip them apart. The truth can not be broken by any. He will just make their arguments look foolish.

I have no idea about Savage.. Nice thing about scripted shows and having a staff that can give you tons of snipits from obscure sources, it's easy to throw out a lot of jibberish but not really say anything.. Rush is just a jackass (and from what I recall, actually does think women belong in the kitchen... and behind the desk as secrataries, so the boss can get a nooner if he's busy)..

Personally, I have a lot better things to do with my life than dedicate it to trying to smear a group of people for any reason.. Some, like Savage I'm presuming, have nothing better to do.. course, it pays well if you can find a way to sleep at night, spewing so much garbage.. I'm not sure if it's a genetic thing or what that makes Conservatives the way they are, but I'm sure they feel the same about Liberals.. In any event.. Some people will never change their minds about their views.. some have views based on analysing information, others twist what they have heard/read to fit what they want.. There seems to be no real way to 'prove' who is more correct.. I'd like to say "logic" should prevail, but then that just becomes debated too.. and since we will never have proper 'facts' from either side, 'logic' doesn't have a chance to thrive..

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

Originally posted by DarkHemprey war war wtf is this forum about agaigin?

The BOARD leans toward Car Audio, this 'sub-forum' is the lounge.. we lounge about and blab.. then you have the 'sound off' sub-forum.. where we 'fight' and '*****' about stuff //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Anything else? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif